another GM product goes...

[GreenZLE]

Originally Posted by tenargo57

Where did you get those numbers from?



2023: 97,061


2022: 115,468


It's been on a steady decline since around 2016 https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/chevrolet/malibu

Sorry, 2022 was the year they were up.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

One thing that gets lost in this mix is the impact of fuel economy curves. In negotiating the rule making for Car CAFE and Truck CAFE the Detroit 3 were very successfully in negotiating different fuel economy curves for the Car Fleet and the Truck Fleet. The curves for both Car and Truck are based on “shadow area” which can be most easily defined as the area bordered by the tire patches. Readers Digest version is that the Detroit 3 got the regulators to agree that due to rules of physics that cannot be violated, where a Truck and a Car have the same footprint area, the Truck will require more energy to operate than the Car. And therefore, the Truck should have a less stringent fuel economy target than the Car. Remember, this is the Readers Digest version. There’s a lot more involved here. So…If you have a Malibu and an Equinox that have roughly the same “shadow area”, the Equinox will have an easier fuel economy target to hit than the Malibu. And the Equinox has a better profit margin per vehicle sold. So, if you’re GM do you ant to build and sell more Malibu or more Equinox? The choice is clear. This is part of the reason why sedans are dropping out of brand portfolios and utilities are breeding like rabbits. From th manufacturer side. From the consumer side, the utility configuration is far more usable than the sedan. Sedans ma be more stylish (and coupes even more so) but at the end of the day, consumers are purchasing more utilities because they are more useful than similar sized sedans.

Well said and good explanation. I’m perfectly happy to roast GM when needed, but it’s pretty understandable why they did it. And if we’re being fair, Ford pulled the plug on sedans much sooner than GM did. GM rode it out for a bit longer but the writing is on the wall. The government is simply putting the manufacturers in an unenviable position.

[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Because the Malibu rides and performs better and is built better. The Equinox is a bucket of Fisher Price plastic

I assume you're joking because it's obvious you have never actually driven an Equinox.

[GreenZLE]

Originally Posted by Alan47717

I assume you're joking because it's obvious you have never actually driven an Equinox.

I have to agree that the Equinox is a POS and I own an Equinox. I'd much rather have an Impala. I bet the ride of the Malibu was more comparable to the Impala than the Equinox terd. I cant wait to pay my ZLE off so I can get rid of the Equinox.

The fact is, GM killed off every car that would keep it competitive. My wife only bought Grand Prix...until they were killed off. then she moved to a LaCrosse...until it was killed off. Now she has an Acadia which she doesnt love. I desperately wanted to buy a new ZLE but my in laws couldnt order one because of limited production. I would have ordered every damned option I could have gotten. We would have bought at least one Impala.

Because of idiotic GM's BS, I wont buy another GM product, period. Congrats GM, I'm now a foreign car buyer.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by GreenZLE

I have to agree that the Equinox is a POS and I own an Equinox. I'd much rather have an Impala. I bet the ride of the Malibu was more comparable to the Impala than the Equinox terd. I cant wait to pay my ZLE off so I can get rid of the Equinox.

The fact is, GM killed off every car that would keep it competitive. My wife only bought Grand Prix...until they were killed off. then she moved to a LaCrosse...until it was killed off. Now she has an Acadia which she doesnt love. I desperately wanted to buy a new ZLE but my in laws couldnt order one because of limited production. I would have ordered every damned option I could have gotten. We would have bought at least one Impala.

Because of idiotic GM's BS, I wont buy another GM product, period. Congrats GM, I'm now a foreign car buyer.

Well you could always get a Fo…oh, wait. Ford already killed off their sedans. Well Stellantis has….nuthin. Killed off all their sedans too. I’m sensing a trend…companies that make a lot of Full Sized Trucks have killed off their sedans (Car CAFE fleet) and replaced them with more crossovers (Truck CAFE Fleet) that help their Truck CAFE so that they can sell more trucks. And companies that DON’T have Full Sized Trucks still sell sedans because they’re more concerned about their Car CAFE. Trust me, more than a coincidence.

But wait! Toyota makes Tundra! That’s a full sized truck, right? Check Tundra volume vs F150, Silverado, Sierra, or Ram 1500. Then consider that Toyota is putting hybrids on practically everything, including Tundra and it’s easy to see why they aren’t worried about CAFE.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Because the majority of the American car buying public are idiots and believe all the pr these companies use to push SUVs.

There was a time I was a Honda fan and owned 3 of them. But in the last 10 years before they started cutting them all GM and Ford both were making excellent sedans. The last gen Fusion and current Malibu are every bit as good as the best Camrys and Accords ever made. Maybe better.

You ever get a chance to drive a well maintained last gen, fully loaded Fusion I suggest you do. They feel like a small Mercedes. Yes, I’m not kidding or over exaggerating. They’re that good.

Just when they finally perfect something and get it right they kill it off.

Geeze just get it right the first time and make it the best to start with.

I’m sorry but as someone actually shopping for a mid size sedan as a new daily I have to disagree. The Malibu (and fusion) are not nicer than Camrys and Accords. That being said the Malibu undercuts them in price enough(especially used) that I’m not even considering a Camry or accord. I would get a Camry if I had more disposable income but I don’t so Malibu it is. I do agree that the Malibu and Fusion are decent sedans but I don’t trust any auto trans fords aside from the 6r80 and 10r80.

[Evergreen6]

I feel like the lower (LT) Equinox trims could easily be fixed.

It's the plastic upper dash that just screams CHEAP, and the use of urethane steering wheels. The seats are also too narrow or need less pronounced bolsters, but that's highly subjective - I'm a big tall dude.

[90503]

Ahhhh, Sedans, one of my favorite topics. I always thought they were under rated and ignored intentionally by the makers and others to promote EVs and SUVs.

"It's a dying segment", even though, for instance, last quarter the Malibu nearly outsold the entire Cadillac line-up. Sure sedans from gm will die off. Every time one is cancelled even though sales weren't that bad, like the Cruz (well you can get an Impala or a Malibu!), then the Impala (well you can get a Malibu, its almost the same now as the Impala), now the Malibu itself is gone. No wonder sedans are touted as un-popular. Hard to buy one if they don't make one and the manufacturer (gm) portrays it as a turkey for many years that needs to go. A big reason gm and chevy brand loyalty is a waste of time and brain-power. Prior customers are just saps who kept buying cars they want to get rid of.

Oh well. I don't buy the sales excuse or any of the other so-called rationale for ending cars like the Malibu. GM used to be able to have the most models and types of cars for sale, now they could care less, even though its sales are decent, the trend card and "we made plans to use the plant for something else" doesn't always pass the smell test. Build another plant for Pete's sake, and stop eliminating others like Lordstown.

My Chevy and gm brand loyalty days are over and done. Nothing they do surprises me anymore or gets my interest.

But, I love my '17 Impala! Last of the Tried and true 6speed auto and V-6 as well as no start-stop or cylinder de-activation. Runs like a top, trouble free for over six years now. I love it. Too bad they are all gone now.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

Attachment 1151316

Ahhhh, Sedans, one of my favorite topics. I always thought they were under rated and ignored intentionally by the makers and others to promote EVs and SUVs.

"It's a dying segment", even though, for instance, last quarter the Malibu nearly outsold the entire Cadillac line-up. Sure sedans from gm will die off. Every time one is cancelled even though sales weren't that bad, like the Cruz (well you can get an Impala or a Malibu!), then the Impala (well you can get a Malibu, its almost the same now as the Impala), now the Malibu itself is gone. No wonder sedans are touted as un-popular. Hard to buy one if they don't make one and the manufacturer (gm) portrays it as a turkey for many years that needs to go. A big reason gm and chevy brand loyalty is a waste of time and brain-power. Prior customers are just saps who kept buying cars they want to get rid of.

Oh well. I don't buy the sales excuse or any of the other so-called rationale for ending cars like the Malibu. GM used to be able to have the most models and types of cars for sale, now they could care less, even though its sales are decent, the trend card and "we made plans to use the plant for something else" doesn't always pass the smell test. Build another plant for Pete's sake, and stop eliminating others like Lordstown.

My Chevy and gm brand loyalty days are over and done. Nothing they do surprises me anymore or gets my interest.

But, I love my '17 Impala! Last of the Tried and true 6speed auto and V-6 as well as no start-stop or cylinder de-activation. Runs like a top, trouble free for over six years now. I love it. Too bad they are all gone now.

In many ways the internal workings of the auto industry don’t parallel real life. It would make sense that the car with the best fuel economy and decent sales should stick around and the larger, more fuel consuming model get canceled. But that’s not what happened. The reason Cruze died and Malibu and Impala lived is due to the smaller shadow area (wheelbase x track) of Cruze compared to the other two. Shadow area is also the reason trucks keep getting bigger. These aren’t the real numbers because I don’t care enough to actually look them up, but because of their comparative shadow areas, Cruze would have had to achieve over 50 mpg whereas Impala may have needed to achieve 38 and Malibu 44. Again, those are numbers I pulled from the air, but they are directionally and proportionately correct.

So, Cruze drops and Impala and Malibu are left standing. So what does GM do next? Increase the shadow area of the Malibu to almost the same as Impala and then drop Impala. Because Malibu is much lighter than Impala and has almost the same shadow area, it will have a much easier time meeting the CAFE curve than Impala.

Your point that since Malibu sold almost as many cars as all of Cadillac in 2023 GM should have kept it is interesting, especially knowing how you feel about electric vehicles. So using your logic, Model 3 should be allowed to stick around. After all, it is a sedan. And it sold almost as many units in the US in 2023 as Malibu and all of Cadillac combined.

I’m not sure when and where GM “proclaims it [Malibu] as a turkey”. Malibu had its place in the portfolio. It did its job. Now sales are dropping and there’s no motivation to invest in a replacement. Equinox does the job better. And Trailblazer, and Trax. That’s what’s replacing the Malibu volume.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by NovaSS4spdFan

Factoids :
-The sales numbers for the Malibu are actually quite good. In the segment, doing very respectable with over 30K units this quarter.

- I've never seen a photo of one fully enfulfed in flames (along with the garage and driveway attached to the house). Remember the pic of the Bolt from just a few years back ?

- GM is running over seniors ( MANY who are VETERANS) who have been brand loyal to Chevy all of their lives. It's like :"you're dying, so we don't need ya anymore" Thanks a lot.

Now you have

https://youtu.be/Inp7UlMgFOA?si=qL0H6KaoJG4EaC1f

Come on down to SW Florida and look at the number of Seniors in SUVs.

And 30,000 in a quarter on a car that likely is losing money isn’t enough. But the real issue, as announced, GM is shutting the plant down for a year. So is the Malibu selling well enough now to warrant bringing it back almost 2 years from now? It sure won’t sell better so my guess is the new Bolt will take its place in January 2026 when the plant reopens. So the real announcement is “GM is shutting the plant down for a year starting the end of 2024 . And when production resumes in late 2025 the 10 year old Malibu will not go back into production”

[SomeGeoffGuy]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Only in California and other states aligned with CARB and that’s not until 2030.

It's not like there is a switch they can flip. 2028 is already baked, and that is when stuff starts phasing in. When you are talking EV and hybrid, the technology is changing so fast, it is a new platform every time. So the old 18 or 24 month engineering cycle that Honda and Toyota always bragged about is pretty much out the window. Even Tesla takes a while to put EV's out. Look how long it took to bring the cybertruck into production - 2019 to 2024 - so five years? So if you have to meet an EV target for 2030, time is just about up.

-Geoff

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by SomeGeoffGuy

It's not like there is a switch they can flip. 2028 is already baked, and that is when stuff starts phasing in. When you are talking EV and hybrid, the technology is changing so fast, it is a new platform every time. So the old 18 or 24 month engineering cycle that Honda and Toyota always bragged about is pretty much out the window. Even Tesla takes a while to put EV's out. Look how long it took to bring the cybertruck into production - 2019 to 2024 - so five years? So if you have to meet an EV target for 2030, time is just about up.

-Geoff

I see what you are saying here, but there’s quite a bit of nuance to this. Cybertruck is a completely new platform with a lot of groundbreaking tech (48V electrical architecture, totally new formulation of stainless steel [not DeLorean] steer-by-wire with no physical backup) so it would have been a miracle if it had been delivered on time. But Musk does have a tendency to over-promise and under-deliver and CyberTruck is a shining example of both.

EV platforms are harder to develop and take longer for the first application. But variants can and should come quicker. Once Tesla developed the skateboard for Model 3, Model Y followed relatively quickly and went on to become the high volume application, produced in (4) plants globally.

GM’s Ultium BEV3 platform was late coming to market (Lyriq) but expect to see variant after variant pop over the next year (Blazer EV and Equinox EV out now. Cadillac Optiq and Vistiq to follow soon, then a Buick model or models).

Hyundai is doing the same thing. Now that they have their basic platform, they have introduced Ionic 5, Kia EV6, Genesis GV60, Kia EV9 and have several more products positioned for release in 2024 and 2025.

Part of the draw of moving to high volume EV for legacy automakers is that they can do multiple vehicles of different sizes and values using the same basic platform instead of multiple billion dollar plus architectures. Then variations can be launched with different tophats in relatively short order.

[GreenZLE]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Well you could always get a Fo…oh, wait. Ford already killed off their sedans. Well Stellantis has….nuthin. Killed off all their sedans too.

You're exactly right and thats why I'll be buying a foreign sedan within 2 years.

Since government regs are continuing to kill off choice, you'd think these companies would openly ask the U.S. public to pressure the government to roll back regulations. The eventuality is they will be nearly ran out of business anyway.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by SomeGeoffGuy

It's not like there is a switch they can flip. 2028 is already baked, and that is when stuff starts phasing in. When you are talking EV and hybrid, the technology is changing so fast, it is a new platform every time. So the old 18 or 24 month engineering cycle that Honda and Toyota always bragged about is pretty much out the window. Even Tesla takes a while to put EV's out. Look how long it took to bring the cybertruck into production - 2019 to 2024 - so five years? So if you have to meet an EV target for 2030, time is just about up.

-Geoff

Honda and Toyota never bragged about 18 or 24 month development cycles. It got down to 36 months and that was my challenge……..until Toyota publicly admitted 36 was impacting quality.