most you've gotten screwed on a car deal?

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by BowtieBelle

Too bad dealers don't go by KBB. They go by their black book which is always like $2k less than KBB. It sucks.

Well that is not my experience in the last year see my last post.....

[BowtieBelle]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Well that is not my experience in the last year see my last post.....

Yeah and your experience is the exception, not the rule. I've traded in no less than 8 cars and every time I've used KBB as a guide I've been lowballed by the dealer according to their black book. Just the way it works, 95% of the time. Chances are you got such a good deal on trading in your HHR because your dealer knew someone who wanted one and marked it up to them. Or something similar.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Well that is not my experience in the last year see my last post.....

Haven't used blue-book in a while, but I remember they always give a seperate price for trade-in (low) and selling private party (higher)....and even I think what the dealer would sell it for after a trade....Basically just a guide, never meant to be right to the penny....

[Bruiser]

I'd say the biggest thing I can contribute at this point is to say that if it's not in writing, it's not going to happen.

The first time I bought a new car, I was worried about getting the loan thru my credit union, which had a lower rate than the dealer was offering. The salesman told me that if I ended up going thru the dealer, he would make up the difference of the overage. My limit was $400 and he said that if it was $401, he'd write a check for 60 bucks to me. He also said that anytime it needed to go in for servicing, he would loan me his car for the day. Well it was over $400 and when I asked for the check, his reply was "what are you talking about?" and I never did get to borrow his car. Another client always had it already

That was over 30 years ago and I've bought a lot of cars since then. It was an eye-opener to say the least.

-Bob George

[Ringo64]

I think getting a "deal" sometimes can be in the eye of the beholder as well. Some may be happy just to get the car, others won't be happy until the price is under MSRP and others won't be happy till they get $10k off.

I'd just say do your homework and if you're going to buy a car like this then be aware of the markup and only get it for something you feel comfortable paying.

I don't like saying what I paid for my Camaro but in my eyes I got a great deal that I couldn't walk away from.

[The_Blur]

Unless you're a dealer, it's pretty hard to tell how badly they got you. You might not feel like you're paying a fair value for a vehicle, but that might be the cost, or it might be a really bad deal. It's hard to tell sometimes.

[90503]

My boy and I recently went to a dealership to look at the Sonic. There were a couple out front, so we decided to stop and have a look. Went inside the showroom "found" a salesman, told him we had seen the Sonics at a car show and wanted to take another look.
As we walked out of the showroom the salesman physically diverted us away form where the Sonics were parked and guided us over to the Cruzes...He went on and on about how great they are, did we want to buy one today?, etc.,
I said "Dude, you didn't even want to show us the car we came here to see! WTF?"
Of course we left, and have yet to buy a Sonic...lol....
Why car buyers have to wade through a mine-field of salesmen to purchase a car, I'll never understand.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by 90503

Why car buyers have to wade through a mine-field of salesmen to purchase a car, I'll never understand.

There's no real alternative. That's why you have to put up with it.

[strych9]

Rip-offs only happen if you let it happen. Fortunately, all of my new cars (except the Camaro and Mazdaspeed 3) have been purchased while I worked at a dealer. Everything was transparent, as I knew what the dealer paid for each of them.

The Mazda was my first new purchase without actually working for the dealer I was buying it from. It was a 2011 that I bought in Oct. 2010. I bought it for $1k under MSRP, with no trade-in. I traded that car for the Camaro, with $8k worth of equity that I applied as a down payment, and I bought the Camaro @ $1100 under MSRP.

All things told, I've never been upside-down on any purchase. The key is to buy any new car at least $1k under MSRP, and roll equity into the next trade. The next tip is to NEVER, and I mean NEVER, buy a used car from a dealer. If most people knew how much screwing goes on with a used car, they would never buy another one from a dealer, ever.

The problem with used cars is that there is too much "hidden" money in them. They could come from trade-ins, auction, or dealer-trade. Typically a dealer will make $2k + profit on a used car, when you could have bought a similar car from a private owner for what it's really worth.

Lastly, sell your car instead of trading it, if possible. Sometimes the tax penalty outweighs any benefit from doing that, but if not, you'll get more "real" money for your car than you would on trade.

[90503]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

There's no real alternative. That's why you have to put up with it.

I think there is an alternative and the last few cars I have purchased have been through my credit union's car shopping service. If you are patient you can compare prices, options, financing all ahead of time without setting foot on a car lot...(Unless you go just to kick the tires)....

I got what I thought was a fair price, had all the figures, options, etc. in front of me before I agreed to or signed anything...I didn't know or care who the dealer was, I even picked it up at the credit union...

Just sayin' I think you are definitely at a dis-advantage if you are anxious to buy a new car you are smitten by, and your first and only option is going to a dealership and buying through a salesman....

[Mr. iNCREDIBLE]

here's the thing, and someone might have already stated it I didn't read all the posts.


trading a car should be handled as a complete separate transaction from buying the car.. the two transactions are not linked..


What I mean is that you should never look at it in terms of well if I get this for my trade my financing is this..

Something I have learned over the years is to make sure the dealer treats these as 2 separate transactions and I expect a check cut to me for the trade I will not allow them to roll it into my new cars financing..

I've found in doing it this way I keep the salesman focused on each transaction and not on the "sale" usually the trade gets back burnered by the salesman and they are so focused on the sale of the new car that you get boned on the trade.

take my Camaro. I owed $24K on my Avalanche, I got $35K for it on trade.. $11K equity in the Avalanche, I made them cut me a check for that, and I though I used it for my down payment, it forced the salesman to focus on the trade first and give me what I wanted for it, their original offer was $31K but we negotiated on it same as buying the new car, because in fact they are buying the car from you, why should the transaction be treated as an "as is" transaction when the new car deal isn't?

Also I will NEVER allow negative equity of a trade to be added to the financing of a new car.. I did that once, that is my "got burned" story, I rolled $6K of negative equity into a new car purchase, I was 20 and stupid, it was a boner of a deal and raised by payments by $120 a month..


If you have negative equity sometimes it is just better to sit on the car you have until you are in a better position, or sell it private to zero yourself out.

--

Those 2 things is where most people get burned on buying a car IMO.. That and "market adjustment" add on fees, which do nothing but give you negative equity in the vehicle out the door, because you are paying more than the real world knows the car is worth.



** oh and a side note on the KBB thing, dealers typically use the Manheim Auction Pricing when looking at a trade, not the KBB or Nada, and if you are trading across different makes expect to get shafted, trading a Chevy for a Chevy will get you a lot more on the trade than trading a Chevy for a Ford, as most dealership will keep your same make trade if under 75K miles and can be certified as a pre-owned and resold on their lot.

Using my Avalanche again, I got $35k for it, it has since been sold (only sat on the lot for 2 weeks) for $41,900, dealer made a butt load on it. However the car I traded for the Avalanche, was a 2005 Chrysler 300c, with 150K, that car I got $2000 below book for it, and it was sold at auction for only $300 more than they gave me, they didn't make jack on that car.

[SPARTAN sui]

Originally Posted by BowtieBelle

Too bad dealers don't go by KBB. They go by their black book which is always like $2k less than KBB. It sucks.

They also use www.nada.com, at least the dealerships I've purchased cars from use that site. The prices seem more realistic than KBB. But ultimately it comes down to what the dealership is willing to give you for your car.

I paid about what my car's retail value is, which would have been fine, however my front bumper has a lot of curb rash on the bottom of it. You can't see it unless you get down on the ground, but it's there.

My rear bumper was resprayed, or replaced. Didn't find that out until the next day and I noticed over spray on the mufflers. I was a bit pissed off about that, but I went back and checked it out, and the car hasn't been claimed in any accidents, and the bumper looks fine paint wise, I couldn't see any bondo work from the inside of it.

Just a couple of things that should have knocked some money off for what I paid for it, but that's what happens when you get a used vehicle. It runs great, and the rest of the car is in good shape.

With trade in value of my Impala, that knocked $1,500 off the price tag, my loan ended up being $26,973.45 with 12,000 miles on the odometer for a 2LT with optional 19" polished rims.

Like stated above, my trade in, and my camaro purchase were two separate transactions.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by BowtieBelle

Yeah and your experience is the exception, not the rule. I've traded in no less than 8 cars and every time I've used KBB as a guide I've been lowballed by the dealer according to their black book. Just the way it works, 95% of the time. Chances are you got such a good deal on trading in your HHR because your dealer knew someone who wanted one and marked it up to them. Or something similar.

I was fairly shocked at both, I had looked them up on KBB and got the trade in value and the private party values. My first offer was actually what KBB had for private party value. Of course both were in excellent condition and considered low mileage, both sold off the lots within a few days. I felt I got an excellent deal both times. Oh this was from two different dealers too.

[soloknight6]

Ive been told I was screwed. OTD on a brand new 2012 2LS back in november 2011, 30,000. MSRP was ~25,000