Simple Horsepower

[Dropspeed]

Originally Posted by Jims Mongoose

We are getting to it now. Thanks to all the knowledgeable tech guys on here.

So if I understand the bottom line, when I intall the headers, high flows and they tune it for the right mixture with the increase airflow and volumetric efficiency obtained by the whole setup CAI, Headers, HFcats, the engine will give the most it can give and it maybe between 35 to 45 RWHP. I mean I will feel that kind of power in my seat of the pants dyno -----right?

Still need some help with the heat under the hood. I keep reading that the hotter it is in engine compartment I'll lose power. Will wrapping the headers with header insulation help? I'm assuming that alot of heat under the hood from headers comes from the radiant side of heat transfer and not the conductive nature of it.

Jim

Yes you will feel 35-44rwhp! Actually what you will most likely feel is the back end fighting for traction, which is not a bad thing.

If you are concerned with heat you can always ceramic coat the headers. I prefer that over a wrap as a wrap can trap water or any spilled fluid against the headers. IMO the ceramic coating looks better too. A second option is a 2014 hood w/vent . This will not create down force on our 2013 but it will reduce the inherit lift the 10-13 have while reducing under hood temps.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Jims Mongoose

We are getting to it now. Thanks to all the knowledgeable tech guys on here.

So if I understand the bottom line, when I intall the headers, high flows and they tune it for the right mixture with the increase airflow and volumetric efficiency obtained by the whole setup CAI, Headers, HFcats, the engine will give the most it can give and it maybe between 35 to 45 RWHP. I mean I will feel that kind of power in my seat of the pants dyno -----right?

Still need some help with the heat under the hood. I keep reading that the hotter it is in engine compartment I'll lose power. Will wrapping the headers with header insulation help? I'm assuming that alot of heat under the hood from headers comes from the radiant side of heat transfer and not the conductive nature of it.

Jim

You will feel it, especially if you have it all done the same day. However, if you have never modded before then be aware that it can be addictive. After you do the intake exhaust and tune you will feel a little bump mostly when you get on it at the higher rpm range since the engine can breathe a lot better. Like someone else mentioned you typically feel it by reduced traction but to really "see" it you need to run it at the track and compare times. I think the intake, exhaust and tune are the low hanging fruit to extract 30-40rwhp out of these engines, which is fantastic. I don't know of any other engine that responds so well to these simple bolt-on mods.

What happens though, is about a couple months later you get used to the extra power and go on a quest for more. This is where you decide whether you want a cam, supercharger or both. If you go with a higher profile cam you will make more power but then you may sacrifice some drivability depending how large the cam profile and how experienced your tuner. Cams that make big power move the power band higher so they produce big numbers but you need to wind them out to use that power. Ideal for the track in my opinion but not very useable on the street since our cars are too fast for the street to begin with. A mild cam can give you a nice bump in power and not affect the drivability as much and will put less strain on the valvetrain, which is much better option for a DD street car in my opinion.

Now a Supercharger should be loads of fun on the street. Adding all that torque right off of idle is what makes it so intoxicating. If you track the car then you can have other challenges with heat and the added complexity of the system, etc. but that is why you need to determine your goals for the car up front. If you want instant butt dyno response and stock drivability just buy a supercharger kit and visit a reputable speed shop and call it a day. Gain ~150-175 crank HP and torque overnight = many smiles per gallon.

All that said, it doesn't really make sense to spend time and money on any of this unless you have been blessed with the money to burn on this expensive hobby. I can tell you from experience you will spend a lot of money, go faster and then eventually sell the car and not get any of that money back. If that is ok and you mod for the enjoyment of it then that is great but if you are deciding to spend $2k on headers instead of fixing the broken washer machine in your house you may have a problem.
Best of luck.

[GONIF]

With the right parts at the right price you should get a nice bump in HP and not have to go broke . If you have the skill ( and you should) you can install the headers yourself ,and a base tune with data logging should cost $200.00 or less. So $1000.00 should get you long tubes ,HF cats and a base tune. That my friend is cheap entertanement and tons of fun. It will make you enjoy driving the car so much more then when it was stock. Add a cam and a dyno tune and you have the car Chevrolet should have built. If you want to see and hear what it looks and sounds like I'm in Phoenix and whould be glad to show you mine and give you some pointers on the parts and install. pm or email me .

[Jims Mongoose]

Thanks so much to all on this thread, and recently to
Crystal Red Tintcoat: I will check out the resources that you sent me.
Dropspeed:Thanks for the help on header coatings
Raptor5244: Excellent synopsis of what the modding sequence will be like
Gonif.: Thanks for the offer to see and hear your car.

There are two reasons why I'm not putting a supercharger and such in now.
Don't want to spend that much $
I want to slowly see what is reasonable for the street.

Oh yes, my wife can do without the Washing Machine. The "Little Woman" can go down to the creek and wash the clothes. Boy am I brave when I know she won't see this.

I am not set on what i want to do so talking about it has helped alot.

I will never mod it and worry about what I can get. I know these hot rods are not a business investment. I do love this car and cars in general and so will keep it for a long while.

The reason I keep talking about the heat is I have seen and felt alot of cars with header( no I didn' touch the headers while car was still hot). They seem to put out more heat and it feels like radiant heat coming from the headers which get hotter then the stock manifolds. I don't think ceramic coating helps that though it keeps them looking pretty.
Aside from just keeping engine compartment cooler and performing better alot of heat eventually ruins everything under the hood.

So there are no wraps that will do a nice tight job and avoid the trapped liquids etc. I didn't think of that.

I would like to avoid the hood vents, heard alot of horror stories about water in engine compartment.

Gonif, thanks for your offer, when I get a minute I'll take you up on the offer. Or we can meet at the pavillions one day when it's cooler. Sorry we got off to a rocky start. I know everyone here is just trying to help.

Jim

[Dexter9522]

Every car is different man. You can take 2 cars same mods an get different numbers. Joe knows his sh** and is awesome to work with. GONIF I still owe you a ride with the cam I totally forgot. Will make it happen need more Cammed canaros running around phoenix

[Jims Mongoose]

Really appreciate all the help but I would really like to hear thoughts about the header heat and the best wraps to keep the engine compartment heat down.

Will unwrapped headers drive up engine bay heat and will that hurt performance as well as hurt other components?

If that's true will wrapping them with a good insulator help. Or as Dropspeed said, will it just trap water and cause a mess. Is there no way to wrap them so that doesn't happen?

Looking for some help here. I'm kind of fuss about the way things are done to the car.

If wrapping can be viable who makes the wrap and who can wrap them professionally here in Arizona?

Jim

[GONIF]

IMHO ceramic coating is a better option ,and you can buy them already ceramic coated. A hood vent also would help ,like on the 2014's . Mine has a hood vent and non coated long tubes and has not been a heat problem here in the summer heat of Phoenix . If you do wrap the headers you will have to be carefull of oil leaks or spills ,and they look kinda ugly too . Best bet if your worried about heat is to buy the long tubes ceramic coated . FYI you car will run better ( more power) in the winter then the summer here in the Valley no matter what you do .

[Spoolin]

In regards to the header wrap, it's not necessary with what your doing. Will it create more heat? Yes. Is it gonna effect your performance? No. There is so much airflow going through that engine bay that the only thing it will do is head up the firewall and anything close-by. Some engine builders to like to keep the temperatures in the primaries hot as it promotes velocity and therefore increases scavenging effects, but that's for motors that are race motors that also rev way past where our speed limiters are.
In traffic your engine bay will be a bit more toasty but when moving it will be a moot point. So no, don't wrap your exhaust, and if your that worried about heat than ceramic coat them.

[Jims Mongoose]

Okay so how much would a set of stainless works Long tube headers bought and installed by a local shop like CPR with a dyno tune cost?


Jim

[Demon War Horse]

Originally Posted by Jims Mongoose

Okay so how much would a set of stainless works Long tube headers bought and installed by a local shop like CPR with a dyno tune cost?


Jim

Going to guess around $1500. About $1K for the headers and install, about $400 for a good dyno tune, so in that ballpark would be about right. Maybe as high as $1700.

Can't be 100% sure though as I am still mostly stock, but reading and researching a lot for future plans on mine.

[GONIF]

If you feel the need to have them ceramic coated they are available . IMHO you do not need to have them ceramic coated ,it will make very little difference in under hood heat . Check with Joe at CPR ,he can get you a great price on Kooks Long tubes that are ceramic coated ,and he can install them .He knows what works . If you can ( and I know you can ) install them yourself you will save some $$$$ ,it is simple and easy to install long tubes on a 5th gen .4th gen is harder and 3rd get is a real pain in the A$$.

[Demon War Horse]

Originally Posted by GONIF

...If you can ( and I know you can ) install them yourself you will save some $$$$ ,it is simple and easy to install long tubes on a 5th gen .4th gen is harder and 3rd get is a real pain in the A$$.

Good to know for me as well as some buddies and I did the 4th gen from under the car mostly and it was a bugger on jack stands. Glad to know these are a little easier at least.

[markgws6]

Originally Posted by CrystalRedTintcoat

Here are my results from yesterday and 1.5 years ago with just a K&N CAI on a stock 1LE:

DynoPack (March 2013): 411 HP / 400 Torque (Goodies San Jose)
DynoJet (Sept 2014): 417 HP / 406 Torque (Borelli San Jose)

I had to do redo my baseline since Goodies is no longer in biz and I'm about to install shorties and middies.


-CRT

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No wonder you were so hard to keep up with on the track. :-P

[GONIF]

Originally Posted by Demon War Horse

Good to know for me as well as some buddies and I did the 4th gen from under the car mostly and it was a bugger on jack stands. Glad to know these are a little easier at least.

A LOT EASIER