Lookout Z28 & GT500 Dodge MAY have a answer for you!

[Stew]

Originally Posted by alrox

I am calm. I believe this rant makes you the one who needs to calm down. I am on no Challenger boards.

Fact:
The SuperSnake Shelby is different than any aftermarket V10 Challenger in that it uses the factory engine, albeit modified. Changing out the entire engine on an unsold car and selling it as new is against the law.

What? I don't even know where to begin! PLENTY of aftermarlet companies do this! From Hennessey to RUF! Also a lot of convertibles are sent to aftermarket companies to have the convertible conversion done and then sent back and shipped out as new cars, is this illegal too? THe more you type, the worse you look......

[alrox]

Originally Posted by Stew

What? I don't even know where to begin! PLENTY of aftermarlet companies do this! From Hennessey to RUF! Also a lot of convertibles are sent to aftermarket companies to have the convertible conversion done and then sent back and shipped out as new cars, is this illegal too? THe more you type, the worse you look......

You can name no specific cars that do this. You named 2 aftermarket companies that do not sell cars as new. You are unspecific about the convertible option. You need to be specific about your argument.

More facts:
It is against federal law to remove, relocate or replace with a nonfactory part a working catalytic converter on any recent automobile. Show me 1 specific car that does this and which dealer I can buy this car from.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by alrox

You can name no specific cars that do this. You named 2 aftermarket companies that do not sell cars as new. You are unspecific about the convertible option. You need to be specific about your argument.

More facts:
It is against federal law to remove, relocate or replace with a nonfactory part a working catalytic converter on any recent automobile. Show me 1 specific car that does this and which dealer I can buy this car from.

I'll tell you what, you start providing proo for the BS you are spitting out and I will tun around and do the same.

[SuperFly03]

[alrox]

Originally Posted by Stew

I'll tell you what, you start providing proo for the BS you are spitting out and I will tun around and do the same.

The catalytic converter statement is correct. To stay on topic in this thread, any V10 Challenger will require a header change, which will change out the catalytic converter. No way around this, which makes the car impossible to build and comply with EPA laws.

Hennessey: http://www.hennesseyperformance.com/howitworks.html

“What if I have yet to purchase the car? Can you build me a complete turnkey car?”
Of course! We regularly work with clients who have yet to buy a base vehicle for upgrading. In most cases, we’ll work with you to locate or order the vehicle that matches your preferences and options, purchase it, then have it transported directly to our facility for upgrading. When all is said and done, you’ll be delivered a brand new, complete Hennessey vehicle that’s ready for the road.

Translation: You buy a stock car and send it to them. They upgrade it and send it to a dealer. You get the entire dealer experience then.

[20Camaro11]

I agree with alrox that this V10 Challenger is pure speculation, it is 99.9% likely that Chrystler never builds a V10 Challenger. However...can't you let a guy dream!

[SuperFly03]

Originally Posted by alrox

The catalytic converter statement is correct. To stay on topic in this thread, any V10 Challenger will require a header change, which will change out the catalytic converter. No way around this, which makes the car impossible to build and comply with EPA laws.

How is this true? If they change the headers how does that mean it automatically can't be built to comply with EPA laws?

Or are you saying the change in the converter (by the aftermarket company who does the engine swap) makes it violate EPA laws?

[SuperFly03]

Originally Posted by 20Camaro11

I agree with alrox that this V10 Challenger is pure speculation, it is 99.9% likely that Chrystler never builds a V10 Challenger. However...can't you let a guy dream!

It is speculation, we all agree there. However, alrox is definitively saying it will never be built and is not even a possibility.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by alrox

The catalytic converter statement is correct. To stay on topic in this thread, any V10 Challenger will require a header change, which will change out the catalytic converter. No way around this, which makes the car impossible to build and comply with EPA laws.

Hennessey: http://www.hennesseyperformance.com/howitworks.html

Translation: You buy a stock car and send it to them. They upgrade it and send it to a dealer. You get the entire dealer experience then.

You are still not really placing any proof out there. Going with headers does not mean you have to change the converter and plenty of companies offer carb certified high flow cats. As for the other thing I will need to research, but the factories sending cars to 3rd parties for additional modifications is NOT a new thing and not illegal. Who knows if this will even happen, IMHO I would rather see an SC'd or turbo 6.4 myself.

[alrox]

Originally Posted by SuperFly03

How is this true? If they change the headers how does that mean it automatically can't be built to comply with EPA laws?

Or are you saying the change in the converter (by the aftermarket company who does the engine swap) makes it violate EPA laws?

It's true because it's what the law says.

http://www.catalyticconverter.org/law/index.htm

E.P.A. guidelines state that replacement converters may be installed only in the following situations:

1. The vehicle is missing a converter
2. A state or local inspection program has determined that the existing converter needs replacement
3. Vehicles manufactured prior to 1996 must have more than 50,000 miles, and a legitimate need for replacement must be established and documented
4. In cases of OBD Il-equipped vehicles (1996 and later), the O.E. manufacturer's 8-year/80,000-mile warranty must have expired and a legitimate need for replacement must be established and documented.
Please note that Federal law prohibits removal or replacement of a properly functioning O.E. converter.

When replacement of the converter is appropriate (as outlined above), the E.P.A. further requires that:

1. It be installed in the same location as the original
2. It be the same type as the original (i.e., two-way, three-way, three-way plus air/three-way plus oxidation)
3. It be the proper model for the vehicle application as determined and specified by the manufacturer
4. It be properly connected to any existing air injection components on the vehicle
5. It be installed with any other required converter for a particular application
6. It be accompanied by a warranty information card to be completed by the installer.

These laws are rarely abided by with performance shops and they put the responsibility of following the law on the owner of the car.

[alrox]

Originally Posted by Stew

You are still not really placing any proof out there. Going with headers does not mean you have to change the converter and plenty of companies offer carb certified high flow cats. As for the other thing I will need to research, but the factories sending cars to 3rd parties for additional modifications is NOT a new thing and not illegal. Who knows if this will even happen, IMHO I would rather see an SC'd or turbo 6.4 myself.

4. In cases of OBD Il-equipped vehicles (1996 and later), the O.E. manufacturer's 8-year/80,000-mile warranty must have expired and a legitimate need for replacement must be established and documented.

Those 'CARB certified' cats installed on new cars with less than 80,000 miles do not meet the laws criteria.

Aftermarket tuners should be more upfront with their activity, legal or not.

Factories do not send their cars to aftermarket companies. Perhaps you're thinking of the 1960's. New cars get delivered to authorized dealers only. What they do with the cars, after a end consumer has purchased them, can vary.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by alrox

It's true because it's what the law says.

http://www.catalyticconverter.org/law/index.htm


These laws are rarely abided by with performance shops and they put the responsibility of following the law on the owner of the car.

I think you are misunderstanding the law. THis has to do with a private owner replacing the factory origional equipment. THey can get the V10 carb certified even if they send it out to an aftermarket manufacturer for final assembly. THe parts and placement will still be certified by Chrysler and the EPA. It is much like when coachbuilders do convertible setups for factories.

[WadeWilson]

[alrox]

Originally Posted by Stew

I think you are misunderstanding the law. THis has to do with a private owner replacing the factory origional equipment. THey can get the V10 carb certified even if they send it out to an aftermarket manufacturer for final assembly. THe parts and placement will still be certified by Chrysler and the EPA. It is much like when coachbuilders do convertible setups for factories.

No. Emissions has nothing to do with a convertible top.

There is no way to misunderstand this.

Please note that Federal law prohibits removal or replacement of a properly functioning O.E. converter.