Tuner will VOID warranty

[jrc1122]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

A dealer isn't going to automatically going to look for a tune if they have no reason to believe you have one.

However if they file a case with GM, then GM will look into the car's computer. That will determine if you get the warranty work or not.
If it's a transmission problem you can be sure they will look further into it to make sure there wasn't a tune involved, or any other modifications that would have caused the problem.

It is makes sense now--- I get it.. I'm not being fraudelent... Thought so.

[GaryTucker]

Originally Posted by granpa

There will still be a boat load of the cars sold because most purchasers are mature enough to take responsibility for their actions. Those that aren't, maybe shouldn't be buying

This is what I was referring to.Sorry if you perceive this as an attack. Just pointing out that everyone with a different opinion than his should not be considered immature. Seems like 530 posts on this thread would indicate that a few folks think that there is something to debate here.

I don't know what you consider offensive in my posts...so I won't debate it with you as you obviously feel differently than I do about the situation. I still stand by my statement that if a person can't be responsible for the choices they make...then maybe the situation isn't for them. We've gotten to be a nation of "entitlement" versus a nation of "I'll do it myself" and that is what I see in situations like this where people want to modify their car, but still want GM to pay for a potential problem.

If a person can't afford to pay for a powertrain replacement, then they need to consider that when they choose to tune as GM may find the tune and deny warranty. That's all I've said on the situation and that's all I'm discussing.

If you have other issues with my posts...feel free to PM me and we'll work it out or take it to the Mods. I'm open to figuring it out...

[JR-Vette]

Sounds like you just like breaking state and federal laws and do not want to be the only one going down so you convince others to do the same so when they get wacked you feel better.

no ONE, repeat NO one can super exceed federal law, that includes SEMA and the MMA you claim you can wipe your butt with it because not even them ( if you could even get them to show up to court court case) could get in front of a judge and say because you whine MMA that you have the right to violate federal LAW

Tuning for any car that is used on public road is ILLEGAL, so that means your statement is false, that means the car is now also in violation with other federal laws as to the car's certification and thus who cares anything about if and maybe your tune ( or past tune) caused a design defect when the car is no longer considered valid.

Again your preaching the kiddie stuff or trying to market some vendor that is making false claims that tunes are hidden from GM engineering,

If you want to test this that MMA will save your butt since you freely have posted you have tune and swap to stock tune to con GM, post your name, and VIN # and see who knocks on your door.
When they do scream MMA and see where it gets you.

Let us know how the $100,000 fine and 6 months in federal jail picking up the soap and keep in mind since it is a federal crime you do not get out of jail sooner and it does not get washed out of your record.

You can join the 5 con artists in Nevada that were jailed couple months ago for making false smog test results for car owners who had crap tunes that failed smog testing.
5 guys, $100,000 fine to each and lots of jail time

There is not ONE case of MMA causing a car owner to win against any nameplate that anyone knows of. MMA is a hype by SEMA to push customers into buying 3rd party parts rather then OEM.

I doubt you understand MMA and even when it is valid but spend about $12,000 plus for a lawyer, 1 year or more in and out of court and you signing the papers buying the car AGREED to all content by GM as what voids warranty.
GM will bankrupt you just in dragging on a court case and the fact you have to sue GM in Mi and you have to travel to each court date.

In the end your way is scary, for the others they get a tune and simply understand they eat the warranty and have no fears GM calls EPA on them.

Originally Posted by jrc1122

Magunson- Moss Warranty Act-- (LAW) which requires a company to prove your modification caused/ significantly contributed to the failure before a warranty work can legally be declined.

A car company can't simply use the "knee bone is connected to the leg bone defense".. They have to actually have credible evidence gained by a qualified technician that your modification caused or led to the damage.

Billy bob- can't say-- "This things got a tune don't it?... Man your car warranty is voided".. It doesn't work that way... Proven by the fact that others have posted stating that if a PCM change is suspected or present, that the information must be forwarded to GM for them to make the decision. Meaning it is still a case by case basis. Because GM is very aware of the Magnuson Moss Act-- and they know that a leaky rear end has nothing to do with someone he used a tuner to get rid of speed limiter, or who simply turns off AFM/ DOD.

So having a tuner doesn't AUTOMATICALLY void you warranty..

[JR-Vette]

The proof is GM has gone out of their way in public documents to make light they have designed methods to find tuners such as you making claims you cannot be caught.
Proof - vendors do not spend the time to HIDE what their product does if it was all legal in the first place.
What is not smart is via internet search at least 300 plus times you have stated in public via marketing that tunes cannot be detected and that in no way would void GM warranty or EPA federal laws.

There have been posts in this thread of owners who were wacked by GM proving a tune had been done
Further proof is how hard you spend in cyberspace trying to convince customers you can put one over on GM when in fact your tuner for Camaro has no legal CARB NO# and the legal issues with the diesel truck tunes.

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

But you are not seeing my point sir...
I say we cant be detected, you say where is the proof?

GM says, tunes CAN be detected, and I say, where is the proof??? But you say, this must be fact. Just because GM said it?
You are going off a double standard here, and I don't get it.
And you keep skipping my subject of thousands of tools sold and not a single documented issue where a dealer actually found one of our tunes and voided a warranty as a result.

Forget that, how many of our Predator and Trinity users right here, on this forum, have been back to the dealer for ANY reason since installing their tune, and have left with no warranty?
NONE.

I like facts. They taste good.

[JR-Vette]

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

No sir.

Worst case scenario would be a failed flash or blanked out PCM, which we will pick up and reflash at no charge, but nothing beyond that.

No worse case as he stated GM proved PCM and /or TCM was tuned then you also should cover all costs for the life of all GM warranty that were lost to that car owner.
But now you can play like GM and simply claim that your warranty already stated it is not responsible for liability thus no expressed warranty or legal costs for customer to fight GM, state and EPA

[JR-Vette]

Originally Posted by 1fastdog

FWIW, the folks I have spoken to < who seem to be quite sincere on the subject > have mentioned "history" and " how many times there has been a "write" as being determinable.

I suppose it is possible to completely reformat and rewrite the memory as a perfect image, but that might look a bit strange as well.

GM is not that dumb, for 1 the flash chip has it's own write area that is not part of the memory address space.
GM has KAM areas in other controllers in the car and send data to multi controllers to catch a cheat such as odometer value is kept in at least 3 other controllers and no tuner product can touch those controller or the KAM content.
The flash chip itself has counters so even if you format the user memory space the flash counters are not touched.

Put another way look at people who erase hard drives and the law is able to recover data or look at it this way you can erase the hard drive but the content in boot chip maintains data.

People totally overlook the KAM, and the fact all controllers are on a network and send data to each other that cannot be erased

[2SSCAMARO]

There must be something in that left coast air! Four back to back posts!

[1fastdog]

Originally Posted by JR-Vette

GM is not that dumb, for 1 the flash chip has it's own write area that is not part of the memory address space.
GM has KAM areas in other controllers in the car and send data to multi controllers to catch a cheat such as odometer value is kept in at least 3 other controllers and no tuner product can touch those controller or the KAM content.
The flash chip itself has counters so even if you format the user memory space the flash counters are not touched.

Put another way look at people who erase hard drives and the law is able to recover data or look at it this way you can erase the hard drive but the content in boot chip maintains data.

People totally overlook the KAM, and the fact all controllers are on a network and send data to each other that cannot be erased

I think we are both aware that GM is not "dumb".

KAM? Yes.

[franknbeans]

Some one with some common sense on the subject. .

Originally Posted by JR-Vette

Sounds like you just like breaking state and federal laws and do not want to be the only one going down so you convince others to do the same so when they get wacked you feel better.

no ONE, repeat NO one can super exceed federal law, that includes SEMA and the MMA you claim you can wipe your butt with it because not even them ( if you could even get them to show up to court court case) could get in front of a judge and say because you whine MMA that you have the right to violate federal LAW

Tuning for any car that is used on public road is ILLEGAL, so that means your statement is false, that means the car is now also in violation with other federal laws as to the car's certification and thus who cares anything about if and maybe your tune ( or past tune) caused a design defect when the car is no longer considered valid.

Again your preaching the kiddie stuff or trying to market some vendor that is making false claims that tunes are hidden from GM engineering,

If you want to test this that MMA will save your butt since you freely have posted you have tune and swap to stock tune to con GM, post your name, and VIN # and see who knocks on your door.
When they do scream MMA and see where it gets you.

Let us know how the $100,000 fine and 6 months in federal jail picking up the soap and keep in mind since it is a federal crime you do not get out of jail sooner and it does not get washed out of your record.

You can join the 5 con artists in Nevada that were jailed couple months ago for making false smog test results for car owners who had crap tunes that failed smog testing.
5 guys, $100,000 fine to each and lots of jail time

There is not ONE case of MMA causing a car owner to win against any nameplate that anyone knows of. MMA is a hype by SEMA to push customers into buying 3rd party parts rather then OEM.

I doubt you understand MMA and even when it is valid but spend about $12,000 plus for a lawyer, 1 year or more in and out of court and you signing the papers buying the car AGREED to all content by GM as what voids warranty.
GM will bankrupt you just in dragging on a court case and the fact you have to sue GM in Mi and you have to travel to each court date.

In the end your way is scary, for the others they get a tune and simply understand they eat the warranty and have no fears GM calls EPA on them.

[Ohten]

The thread that never dies

[jrc1122]

You are some kinda special aren't you? Seriously- I am being told that I am on the verge of imprisonment because I have a handheld tuner on my car.. AND I am being told this by a professional Corvette Tuner.. I can't stop laughing on this one.... Excuse me while I wipe away tears from the heavy laughter. I was taking your posts seriously up until this point.

So I can only assume that all Vettes that get tuned at your shop are flat-bedded in and flat-bedded out right? I mean you would never condone, or allow someone to knowingly break the federal law. Get real man....

Originally Posted by JR-Vette

Sounds like you just like breaking state and federal laws and do not want to be the only one going down so you convince others to do the same so when they get wacked you feel better.

no ONE, repeat NO one can super exceed federal law, that includes SEMA and the MMA you claim you can wipe your butt with it because not even them ( if you could even get them to show up to court court case) could get in front of a judge and say because you whine MMA that you have the right to violate federal LAW

Tuning for any car that is used on public road is ILLEGAL, so that means your statement is false, that means the car is now also in violation with other federal laws as to the car's certification and thus who cares anything about if and maybe your tune ( or past tune) caused a design defect when the car is no longer considered valid.

Again your preaching the kiddie stuff or trying to market some vendor that is making false claims that tunes are hidden from GM engineering,

If you want to test this that MMA will save your butt since you freely have posted you have tune and swap to stock tune to con GM, post your name, and VIN # and see who knocks on your door.
When they do scream MMA and see where it gets you.

Let us know how the $100,000 fine and 6 months in federal jail picking up the soap and keep in mind since it is a federal crime you do not get out of jail sooner and it does not get washed out of your record.

You can join the 5 con artists in Nevada that were jailed couple months ago for making false smog test results for car owners who had crap tunes that failed smog testing.
5 guys, $100,000 fine to each and lots of jail time

There is not ONE case of MMA causing a car owner to win against any nameplate that anyone knows of. MMA is a hype by SEMA to push customers into buying 3rd party parts rather then OEM.

I doubt you understand MMA and even when it is valid but spend about $12,000 plus for a lawyer, 1 year or more in and out of court and you signing the papers buying the car AGREED to all content by GM as what voids warranty.
GM will bankrupt you just in dragging on a court case and the fact you have to sue GM in Mi and you have to travel to each court date.

In the end your way is scary, for the others they get a tune and simply understand they eat the warranty and have no fears GM calls EPA on them.

[jrc1122]

Tuning a car back to stock with my tuner is a requirement- otherwise you run the risk or the tuner being locked if the service guys decide to update you tune (which happens from time to time, when new Technical Bulletins come out)

First you argue that GM can and will detect your tune or a previous tune. if a Transmission or Engine problem comes up. I don't know the real answer. but I take your word for it,, You seem to be fairly knowledgeable on this stuff.

Then you tell me I am a con artist, and fraud because I tune back to stock.

How am I conning them, if they can see it.. How am I being fraudulent if they see it?

Did I con the cop for not giving me a ticket for my window tint? It was visible (just like my tune)-- If they decide to give me a ticket for it (void my warranty)-- then so be it.. But I don't have to point out that my tint is on there. They can easily test my tint darkness and ticket me. (GM can easily test and see if I have/ had a tune on the car)


So now I am going to a federal pound me in the ass prison because I have a handheld tuner that I don't want locked? Well round up 1000s if not 10s of 1000s of people on the internet, because we all do the exact same thing. Have you ever test drove, or went with a test drive with one of your customers after tuning their car? Did you ever hit a public road (chances are you have) --- You installed a federally illegal tune and knowingly got in a car and drove/ rode in it on public roads.. You sir are getting 10-20 hard time... Enjoy your 3 hots and a cot... Look at it this way,,, you will have plenty of time to learn to play basketball, lift weights, and make license plates..

[PSP-SS]

I've enjoyed reading all the opinions on here but am I to understand that tuning a car is a federal crime and that driving a car with a tune is illegal?

[jrc1122]

Originally Posted by PSP-SS

I've enjoyed reading all the opinions on here but am I to understand that tuning a car is a federal crime and that driving a car with a tune is illegal?

Yep,, You're going to a federal pound me in *** prison.. Don't you know.