Don't pay over sticker! Calling out anyone that works under the ZL1 program

[PSP-SS]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

holy cheese and crackers - I just noticed that this is an ancient thread -

(oh well - for those who read it - see my posts.....)

Yep. Dragged me in also.

[daveagogo1]

Originally Posted by camarosss

So therefore you think dealers would go the other way on the price. And I also think this still doesn't give them the right to charge whatever.

Yes i do. I bought mine at $1200 under msrp. Or the exact amount of the RS package i didnt want. They gave it to me for free. Sure it stinks when you have to pay more but supply and demand my friend. This is nothing new and not restricted to cars. Move on or wait until you find the right deal. Also on a last note. Dealetships are NOT GM. They are independent.

[GoldenBear]

I believe that most new automobile customers would like to be able to order a car from GM at MSRP or less, have the dealer place the order with GM, and then have GM manufacture the vehicle and ship it to the dealer where it is delivered to the customer, in an on demand, first come, first served basis.

I believe that is very close to what happens when one orders a vehicle that is not in high demand. However, when one wants to order a vehicle for which there are more willing buyers than there are vehicles that can be produced in a short time frame, that's when the complexities come in to play.

If GM, as an automobile manufacturer, were able to sell vehicles directly to consumers, a FIFO order and delivery process possibly could be used, and consumers might be able to obtain high demand vehicles on a first come, first served basis. However, in the U.S it is illegal for an automobile manufacturer to sell a vehicle directly to a consumer because states have automobile franchise laws that require that new cars must be sold to consumers by dealers and not by manufacturers.

The state automobile franchise laws initially attempted to protect automobile dealers by neutralizing the disparity in bargaining power between the automobile manufacturers and the dealers. However, many now believe that current automobile franchise laws go too far and heavily favor the automobile dealers -- due to their political clout. An example is that automobile dealerships have gained territorial monopolies (called geographic areas) from their manufacturers, fending off anyone who might want to muscle in by opening a competing franchise.

The automobile franchise laws are complex and they vary from state to state, and GM must comply with all of them. Therefore, it's not just a simple matter of one walking into any dealer, placing an order for a high demand vehicle, and then having GM produce and deliver it on demand.

[Phantom.5SS]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

I have discussed this issue many many times on this and other boards.

GM -- and ANY other manufacturer cannot tell (or even discuss) what price the dealer can charge for a car or truck. It's called Anti-Trust and people have gone to jail over this issue. (ask the guys at Honda....)

If the dealer wants to charge you a penny - or 10 million - we are prohibited from even discussing it. We ARE required to establish a Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price - and under the Monroney Act (1958 to be exact) we must place a label on the vehicle when it's produced that shows clearly the Base MSRP - any options and their MSRP -- plus all destination charges. Since 1958, more laws have been passed - such as the requirement to post where the vehicle was built - what percentage of the components on the vehicle are of North American content -- EPA mileage estimates, etc.

You, as a consumer have the right to say "No - I'm not paying over MSRP" The Dealer also has the right to say "Fine........next?"

Now -- I don't personally like that any dealer charges over MSRP.

That said, let's put this in perspective, shall we?

Let's say that you have a perfect 1970 Camaro SS/RS in Cranberry Red with the Custom Interior and all the toys. It has an original 100,000 miles on the odometer. Let's also say that your brother has a very nice 1970 Camaro Sport Coupe -- a non-RS/SS - 307 powerglide - in Mist Green. It has 70,000 original miles.

Do you suppose that they're worth the same money?

Of course not.

A 1970 SS/RS is much more desireable than a 1970 Sport Coupe with a 307 V8 -- and thus, people will be expected to pay more for the SS/RS......much more!


Another example: You have a N.O.S. interior part for a 1970 Camaro. They are impossible to find. When you purchased it in 1971, you paid $20 for it. It's now worth $750 to someone restoring a 1970 Camaro.

Are you going to charge $20? I don't truly think so.

What we have here is are two examples of "Supply and Demand" -- if Demand outstrips Supply - people will pay more for the product or service. Conversely, if supply outstrips demand, prices drop and we see rebates popping up.

The ZL1 is new and it's desired by many. On the other hand - a dealer who 'sits' on a ZL1 asking way over MSRP may be sitting for a longggggg time......and what happens when the 2013s come out and they're more plentiful? (you can then 'grin' and do the "Toldya So" rain dance in his or her showroom.....)

I understand your disappointment.

Did you sign any documentation? Did it spell out clearly that you would pay "MSRP" for the vehicle? If so - you may have legal recourse (but I'm not an attorney - so you may want to visit with one)

If you did not sign a piece of paper that has specifics - then I don't know that you have anything to stand upon.

I'm sorry that this has happened to you - but please understand when you say "GM needs to address this!" - we cannot. (...well, one of us could, but I don't want to go to prison........and I don't think anyone else at GM wants to either.........)

Here is what I love about GM and its people and this site...if there is a question...the answer often comes from the horses mouth!!!

And when they say they are "Listening"....they really are!!!
From the decipels to the brass to the floor workers..they are listening and acting!! Unfortunately the greed of the dealers is the issue in this fellows case..it happens at Ford...Chrysler....any one of them will gouge on a car thats the rage at the time.

To the O.P: You may find timing is everything...and so is savvy...walk in and ask for your deposit back...when they ask just tell em you found a better deal at a "More reputable dealer"....chances are they will want to "Match" that deal. I have had great success doing this..even when there wasnt a problem...just to get the price down!

To FbodFather: what kind of deal can we make on that IBM CTF ZL-1??? I acknowledge I wont find a dealership with a better price....LOLOLOL

[dcplus14]

So what happened with CamaroSSS? Did he walk away?

I suggest taking a look at this post if the OP has questions about MSRP being fair or not:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169445

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by GT FREAK

We are selling all of our vehicles at $50.00 over invoice, We have 3 ZL1's sold one available all at event code 3100-3400.
We have 3 stores and all of them sell at $50.00 over,
We are a Chevy/Cadillac store in Deland.
O.B.

man that is an awesome deal! $50 over invoice which means thousands below MSRP for a ZL1!

[2010SS2SS]

For those that don't know thats why it is Manufactuers SUGGESTED Retail Price! its not illegal, it may not be right but if you didn't get an MSRP offer in writing and gave them your money, then wos to blame but yourself??

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by dcplus14

So what happened with CamaroSSS? Did he walk away?

I suggest taking a look at this post if the OP has questions about MSRP being fair or not:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169445

Not sure old thread. threads like this come up all the time. you talk to one dealer they try to gouge you then you get on the internet and vent. all though and you can find them for MSRP all day long.

anyone who pays over msrp is not motivated there for a target for dealerships that charge over. I can almost guaranty that anybody who spent more than 1 hr searching this forum did not pay over msrp.

I have heard of people getting under like 1k to $1500 but $50 over invioice I would cancel my order and jump on that right now if it is not bs.

[cam99]

There's a dealership about 25 miles from me that was still trying to get over sticker for ss camaro's let alone zl1's. Some dealers are nuts. Personally I refuse to pay over sticker which made me wait to buy my GT500 a couple years ago, but if you just have to have it somebody will take as much as you will give.

[dcplus14]

Originally Posted by hognutz

Not sure old thread. threads like this come up all the time. you talk to one dealer they try to gouge you then you get on the internet and vent. all though and you can find them for MSRP all day long.

anyone who pays over msrp is not motivated there for a target for dealerships that charge over. I can almost guaranty that anybody who spent more than 1 hr searching this forum did not pay over msrp.

I have heard of people getting under like 1k to $1500 but $50 over invioice I would cancel my order and jump on that right now if it is not bs.

You should be able to negotiate near to Invoice. I was lucky enough, on an SS mind you, to get about $1400 below invoice. It takes some homework, patience, a good dealer, and not taking things personally to get there if you really want that.

[Tally Ho]

As long as the "I have to be first" buyers are willing to pay for that privilege, the dealers will add the mark ups. I won't be one of them. I shopped around when I bought my 2006 Vette and ended up $6500 below MSRP. My local dealers were MSRP + for the same car.

I'll be waiting for the "gotta be first" crowd to order their ZL1 convertibles before I place my order. That will give me time to find a dealer willing to apply the root word of dealer - deal.

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by dcplus14

You should be able to negotiate near to Invoice. I was lucky enough, on an SS mind you, to get about $1400 below invoice. It takes some homework, patience, a good dealer, and not taking things personally to get there if you really want that.

IF I was buying an SS it would not be an issue at all. I could get below invoice tomorrow with a phone call. Not so easy on a new year model with limited alocation.

I found one place that was $1500 below MSRP but would not courtesy deliver so it was basically a wash after shipping.

my 08 vette I bought 5.5k below MSRP not a new model. our dodge I bought 10k under MSRP new powertrain year but not a new model. there is no surplus of ZL-1's yet to drive down the cost and alocation are limited so not every dealer can even get one. I know a dealer I could get invoice but they are not getting one so it does not matter.

[Happy_Dan]

Scott, you need to save the link to this thread. You have explained so many times I know it by heart