Review / Installation of OBX Long-Tube Headers!

[MillerTime]

I love my country, have served in the military, and support our own economy. But what Im getting at is that nobody has yet to show any proof that they are a knock off. Comparing these to stolen items that someone tries to sell is simply an unfair/invalid comparison. I'm not trying to be an arrogant prick....really. I have the product in my hands which is more than most can say.

[MillerTime]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

Not even similar. The B&B's pipe routing is completely different, collector is shorter, and the overall header length is shorter. Look at the passenger side header specifically. Kooks and one OP posted have the front three primaries running side by side with the back one cutting behind them. I am willing to bet the ebay headers fit in Kooks jig..haha.

prove that they do and I will stand corrected.

[MarylandSpeed]

Originally Posted by kbui

I am not trying to argue with the Domestic producers and distributors, but hearing you guys talking about R&D on making these headers, I have to ask: how much R&D is involved in making these headers? Headers have been made over and over again for so many different applications over the last 40-50-60...years. Materials are already determined, coated steel, 304SS,409SS.....tubes sizes are pretty much known....The only R&D I can see is trying to fit the bends of these tubes against current engine layout and compartment. Anyone trying to make the headers for these C5 will eventually come to the same paths for these tubes in order to have decent fittings regardless of whether OBX copied the design or not. It's not like you people are making something that are so advanced that someone else couldn't come up with unless they copied.

I do understand you have higher wages in this country for production, but your prices for comparable equipments are just too high to be competitive. If there was a 50% difference in prices, I can see buying American to support domestic workers. We are talking a price which is 2 to 3 times higher, it makes your headers disproportionally expensive when compared to the rest of the car. I can give you an example, an slightly used or a brand new LS3 engine is between 4-6K? The after market complete exhaust system is 1.8K to 2.4K. Do you really think your exhaust system is worth 1/3 to 1/2 of a complete engine?

I can't blame these guys for seeking cheaper alternatives.

As far as R&D..there is a lot that goes into mocking up the header, programming the bender, making the jig. Almost all the headers on the market that were designed in house end up different from one another.

But beyond that, there are other things at play. First off there is an american wage vs. a Chinese wage (huge difference there). These headers take a while to make..as in one welder makes 30-40 a week. There is also the economies of scale. If you have some Chinese contractor making these between runs of Walmart furniture..it is gonna be a lot cheaper than a specialized exhaust manufactuer like Kooks. Then there is the cost of being a real business. If you look at someone like Kooks, their product have a lifetime warranty, you can always call and get knowlegeable support, and they support the enthusiast community. Anyone who runs a business knows the cost of trying to manufacture something here is a backbreaker. The insurance, property taxes, paperwork, marketing,...it all ads up and is hugely expensive. Much more expensive then just sending something to China, having them send you knockoffs, and then selling them on ebay.

Here is the thing to keep in your mind. If you look at all the premium header makers, Kooks, Stainlessworks, ARH, LG, Dyatech...they are all advertised as made in the US, and the prices are all in the same ball park. They are also all hugely competitive. If one of them could come in and undercut the other by a lot and steal some marketshare they would. It does not happen though because that is simply what it costs to run that kind of business the right way. SO when you buy an ebay header, your not getting the same thing for half price. Your getting someone's stolen design from a company who cheats and won't be there if you have an issue.

Originally Posted by MillerTime

prove that they do and I will stand corrected.

You can't look at the pictures and see the obvious? I mean you can stick your head in the sand all day long, but the company in question sells headers on ebay for every application there is, and there is not one shred of evidence of them ever R&Ding everything. No pictures or video's of a facility, No posts looking for R&D cars..no one saying...hey they used my car to make these headers nothing. They don't design their own headers, they steal other's designs..that simple.

Originally Posted by MillerTime

I love my country, have served in the military, and support our own economy. But what Im getting at is that nobody has yet to show any proof that they are a knock off. Comparing these to stolen items that someone tries to sell is simply an unfair/invalid comparison. I'm not trying to be an arrogant prick....really. I have the product in my hands which is more than most can say.

Again..imagine your company makes a widget, and some Chinese company makes a near exact copy and starts selling it on ebay. Look at the pictures. I am not sure what more proof do you need? A Kooks badge?

[ITGuy11]

Congrats on the install.
Hope you enjoy your knock-off's!

[Hicompression]

...I knew the haterz would find this thread sooner rather than later. It's happened in all the Corvette forums. You can't say anything good about OBX without being beaten down by major manufacturers and distributors of their products. LOL.

[kbui]

Marylandspeed: All I saw from your post was high costs of making these headers due to wages and costs of doing manufacturing works in this country. Not a whole lot on R&D, which is my point. Hate to tell you, but you aren't the only people facing this problem. It's simply impossible to be competitive making low tech products with our costs of living in this country, but this can be an endless debate. Simply stated, I always tried to buy American made products. Hell, I have always bought GM cars (my whole family worked for GM); 1 Japanese car and 1 Chrysler product vs. 14 GM cars in the last 30 years. The G35 was the only foreign car since GM didn't have a competing product a few years ago. If you can produce these headers at a more competitive price, I am sure a lot of people wouldn't have to look elsewhere. That lifetime thing, it's pretty worthless with headers. The beauty of these pony/muscle cars, if people still remembered, was that they were "cheap" performance (cheap in costs per performance) and was fun and inexpensive to add mods so that Joe Blows like a lot of us can afford. People like JBAs and OBXs will always be around because of the void for these low costs mods.

[Prochargedchevyi]

If you're a distributor and you want to prove once and for all that OBX rips off product designs, then pop for $400 to make a comparative analysis. Remember, you're dealing with a demographic of people that are DATA DRIVEN. It's not about referring us to a picture and saying "isn't it obvious?" NO! It's not obvious. Whip out a tape measure and make some measurements that are conclusive. I promise that you'll make your $400 investment back 10x if you're correct.

Someone needs to put this myth to bed...Now who's going to step up?

[Georger]

I love my country, have served in the military, and support our own economy. But what I’m getting at is that nobody has yet to show any proof that they are a knock off. Comparing these to stolen items that someone tries to sell is simply an unfair/invalid comparison. I'm not trying to be an arrogant prick....really. I have the product in my hands which is more than most can say.

Let me start by saying thank you for serving our country. I to was in the Marine Corp for 5 years in force recon. Been allot of places and have seen a lot of things. That’s why I take these companies knocking off our product personally. We work very hard to develop the best product we can for you the consumers inside our great land.
First lets talk about the R&D. It takes us roughly 3 to 4 weeks of R&D to develop a new product. It is not as easy as some portray it to be. There’s a lot that goes into it. It is not just the development of getting headers to fit on the car. There is a lot more variables in the equation. Example making the product it self is the start then you have fixturing. Then you have reverse engineering for CAD bending programs design. Then you have trial sets. Then you have final assembly. Then you have street and dyno testing. Then you have packaging Then you have advertising such as forum sponsorship to let the good people of our country know that the product is now available so on and so on.
Now if you think that they did not copy our and other hard working US manufacturing companies let me try to enlighten you. Here is a picture you posted of there product.



Now one of the web.



Now one that I just took out in our 48000 square foot manufacturing facility right here in Statesville NC.



Now I think Ray Charles could see that they are the same design.

Now a pic of our New facility in NC with US tax paying citizen earning a honest living. That in turn invests moneys back into our country.


Now a similar factory were OBX is made.



Know I am not knocking product made in China. I am aggravated at the fact when these companies send our hard work and technology over there to be duplicated and then they call it there own.
One last thing is the spike they put in there headers. Looks similar.
http://www.google.com/patents/about?...custom+headers

I no way am I bashing anyone all I am doing is educating the forum cummunity on the facts thats it. Thats what I was told these forums were all about. If you have any question about our product or the developmeant of our product feel free to give us a call toll free at 1 866 586 KOOK. Where someone will answer the phone.

[Hicompression]

Originally Posted by Georger@kooks

Now I think Ray Charles could see that they are the same design.

George, I see welds on the fore and aft tubes of the OBX system on the drivers side header. I can not tell if they exist on the Kooks header (same with the passenger side header except there is only 1 weld). Do these same welds exist on yours?

[Georger]

No you wont see the weld on our primarys because we have the machining to make the pipe in one piece. See here we have left and right hand bending machines over there they do not. So a cut and weld is needed to duplicate the pipe.

[caverman]

Originally Posted by Hicompression

George, I see welds on the fore and aft tubes of the OBX system on the drivers side header. I can not tell if they exist on the Kooks header (same with the passenger side header except there is only 1 weld). Do these same welds exist on yours?

Are you talking about these?

My KOOKS don't have those at all. They are a solid pipe.

[CamaroCowboy]

You know I just want to say something.

I baught these headers and installed them with my muffler delete. I absolutely love the sound of my car. It is very attention getting. That said.

I served in the Army for 13 years and I love my country. What you people fail to realize is that not everyone has the money to spend on the "American Made" ones. I will support my economy every chance I get, however, I have six children a nice house and four chevy vehicles in the driveway. I am not going to waste any of my hard earned money on a "NAME". I do not pay for a name. Just because they are name brand does not make them better. In fact they just did a study on walmart and found that more than half the walmart brands are better then the so called "Name" brands.

Sorry to sound like I am ranting but you must understand that I am tired of the negative stuff. Why can't people just give their opinion and say "Glad Your Happy".

I like my OBX LT Headers and I love the sound of my car with them. I don't care if no one else likes the brand because when I rev my engine at Camaro meets I always get a couple people asking me what I have.

Again sorry if I ranted alittle.

[Georger]

You know I just want to say something.

I baught these headers and installed them with my muffler delete. I absolutely love the sound of my car. It is very attention getting. That said.

I served in the Army for 13 years and I love my country. What you people fail to realize is that not everyone has the money to spend on the "American Made" ones. I will support my economy every chance I get, however, I have six children a nice house and four chevy vehicles in the driveway. I am not going to waste any of my hard earned money on a "NAME". I do not pay for a name. Just because they are name brand does not make them better. In fact they just did a study on walmart and found that more than half the walmart brands are better then the so called "Name" brands.

Sorry to sound like I am ranting but you must understand that I am tired of the negative stuff. Why can't people just give their opinion and say "Glad Your Happy".

I like my OBX LT Headers and I love the sound of my car with them. I don't care if no one else likes the brand because when I rev my engine at Camaro meets I always get a couple people asking me what I have.

Again sorry if I ranted alittle.

There is no need to say you’re sorry at the end of your post. You stated your opinion as did I. As for you saying you are paying for the name that’s not true. It just plain cost more to keep the manufacturing process here in our country. It’s that simple it has nothing to do with the name. Thank you for serving this great country also. I did not want that to go unmentioned

[MarylandSpeed]

Man I wish people would get it. You are not saving $400 or whatever by not buying a name or going with a generic. Your saving $400 by buying a header someone stole the design for and sells on ebay with no support and warranty. Basically Kooks did all the work, and this company is aping their work and good name.

This will tweak some people but whatever. To me it simply makes no sense to go out and buy a $35K perfomance coupe, and then come on here and list all the reasons listed below to jusify why you have to buy a set of knock off headers. I am the first one to tell people performance parts are somewhere around the "Old Time Photos" booth at the beach in terms of how much a neccesity they are. You don't have to mod your car, it is, not a neccesity. Hell, if money is tight, and you have a lot of kids, a Camaro is likely a terrible purchase and modding it even worse. It's a hobby, something you do with your free time and money. Persoanlly I would rather not mod my car for a few years and do it right, then do stuff with cheap knock off products like this.

As I have said 1000x, it's your money...you can do what you want with it. I fully understand to some people $$$$ in their pocket is more important than how a product is made. However I do think it is important to know just what practices you are supporting when you buy these headers.

Originally Posted by CamaroCowboy

You know I just want to say something.

I baught these headers and installed them with my muffler delete. I absolutely love the sound of my car. It is very attention getting. That said.

I served in the Army for 13 years and I love my country. What you people fail to realize is that not everyone has the money to spend on the "American Made" ones. I will support my economy every chance I get, however, I have six children a nice house and four chevy vehicles in the driveway. I am not going to waste any of my hard earned money on a "NAME". I do not pay for a name. Just because they are name brand does not make them better. In fact they just did a study on walmart and found that more than half the walmart brands are better then the so called "Name" brands.

Sorry to sound like I am ranting but you must understand that I am tired of the negative stuff. Why can't people just give their opinion and say "Glad Your Happy".

I like my OBX LT Headers and I love the sound of my car with them. I don't care if no one else likes the brand because when I rev my engine at Camaro meets I always get a couple people asking me what I have.

Again sorry if I ranted alittle.