long tube install. obx stainless 304.

[CamaroCowboy]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

Hey, First off, Thanks for Your Sponsorship of this Forum,

It is in my opinion, the best car forum available...

I stayed out of the other thread as a non-player, but I wanted to give an opinion. I am still a relative non player, as my Twin Turbo aspirations do not require headers, (hope that doesn't make me one of the evil ones) but I want to ask if you realize how you come across here on the forum.

I know from reading another OBX header thread that it's a burr in your side, but...

Do you think you are winning any customers when you go off on one of these tangents...
People shop at Wal-mart due to many other companies pricing themselves out of business. (Yes Wal-Mart was the big chain that bought more stuff and therefore had greater buying power... but what makes them any different than what you do with items you buy and re-sell... other than size...) The U.S. automakers tried to do the same, in a number of ways. I realize that Kooks, ARH, and many others spend money on research and developement, buildings, electricity etc...

I also realize many people in this two adult working family society are struggling to make ends meet. Is it really that wrong for a few folks to buy what they can afford, rather than doing without. Obviously you can afford to buy what you want, but not all people can... Military folks do not make as much money as business folks, but they allow us the freedoms to do what we want. Police Officers and Firefighters don't make as much as some folks, should they all go without.

Free trade agreements allow this to happen, and U.S. businesses are way into to outsourcing items. I venture to say that most of the items you use in your daily life are from overseas.

American arrogance and ego have made us think anything made in a foreign country is inferior. No, it's not in all cases, in some cases yes it it.

I dont' understand the vehemence you display. Those that are buying OBX are obviously not taking money out of your pockets, as they can't afford what you are offering... or choose not to pay more for what appears to be basically the same thing.

If Kooks has a problem with it, then they can pursue international copyrights violations charges... I'm not an attorney, but there is probably some option for them... but then I guess that cost would be passed on to the customer as well.

Automated manufacturing has taken hold and most anything can be made by machines, much faster, and of better quality than people can... Not in all cases, but in most....

Do you think all of the OBX headers are made on a machine... I doubt it... So, after the initial run, by Kooks, ARH etc...which I venture pays for most of the developement and set up cost, why do the prices not come down... they do in virtually every other market.

I for one pay attention to the conversations and attitudes displayed by Vendors when I am reading a thread... and make a lot of my purchasing decisions based on what I hear/read...

Lighten up, look at the items around you, and determine if anything in your business or home is foreign made... If there is anything, then you would be the pot calling the kettle black... Have you ever driven a foreign car, watched a TV made in Japan, etc... I realize you base the backbone of your argument on the copying of a design, but that goes on everywhere, and it is for the OEM to pursue it, not someone on an automotive forum.

I personally am getting ready to lay out a huge sum of money, for an American made and designed product for my Camaro, several of them actually... but that certainly doesn't mean that in some cases, I would not buy from a foreign company.

Wal-Mart, one of the largest employers in the country... helping the ecopnomy in so many ways.... let them go out of business and see how much unemployment goes up...

Oh, and do you manufacture anything, or do you simply buy, mark up and re-sell things??? Just curious... if thats all you do, then how are you benefitting anyone other than yourself....???

Very Well Said.....

[rodscamaro]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

It was already established in a previous thread that they were knock off Kooks. I think everyone decided it's okay however because the wallet matters more and everyone buys stuff from Walmart that is made in China(?). So far no one has been burned by fit or quality because well..it is welded pipe. If you scew up copying someones welded pipe you deserve what is coming. However do your research because there are threads on other forums of people who have had issues with stuff made by this brand and been left high and dry.


I know the same 5-6 people who populate these threads will jump all over me..but whatever. I think it should always be mentioned where these headers come from. Just like Walmart, it is easy to feel good about a cheap price untill you realize what is really behind it. Your basically buying a stolen design, made over seas with no warranty and support. I am sure kooks could match their price if they were allowed to skate by with that level of support and service and their only sales outlet was ebay. If you want to mod your car with the equivelent of a fake Rolex than more power to you.

I'm behind you 100%, I think it's worth mentioning the facts behind this product. It's not a bash on people who buy these headers!!!! Really

[FRANK121]

So how do you or did you use cats with these headers?

I have stock exhaust now with GM axle backs and don't want to make it too loud but I'm seriously looking at these.

[CamaroCowboy]

Originally Posted by FRANK121

So how do you or did you use cats with these headers?

I have stock exhaust now with GM axle backs and don't want to make it too loud but I'm seriously looking at these.

PM Sent

[ctk1]

Hey guys, I'm seriously considering these as well, but I have a couple of questions for the guys that have these. First, how much louder will it make the car? I have a loudmouth I on my car and I really don't want it to be obnoxious. 2nd, Can you run cats with these? Is there some sort of adapter or will the factory exhaust bolt right up?
3rd, has anyone dynoed their car before and after to see the gains? Thanks guys!

[Alfieboy]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

Hey, First off, Thanks for Your Sponsorship of this Forum,

It is in my opinion, the best car forum available...

I stayed out of the other thread as a non-player, but I wanted to give an opinion. I am still a relative non player, as my Twin Turbo aspirations do not require headers, (hope that doesn't make me one of the evil ones) but I want to ask if you realize how you come across here on the forum.

I know from reading another OBX header thread that it's a burr in your side, but...

Do you think you are winning any customers when you go off on one of these tangents...
People shop at Wal-mart due to many other companies pricing themselves out of business. (Yes Wal-Mart was the big chain that bought more stuff and therefore had greater buying power... but what makes them any different than what you do with items you buy and re-sell... other than size...) The U.S. automakers tried to do the same, in a number of ways. I realize that Kooks, ARH, and many others spend money on research and developement, buildings, electricity etc...

I also realize many people in this two adult working family society are struggling to make ends meet. Is it really that wrong for a few folks to buy what they can afford, rather than doing without. Obviously you can afford to buy what you want, but not all people can... Military folks do not make as much money as business folks, but they allow us the freedoms to do what we want. Police Officers and Firefighters don't make as much as some folks, should they all go without.

Free trade agreements allow this to happen, and U.S. businesses are way into to outsourcing items. I venture to say that most of the items you use in your daily life are from overseas.

American arrogance and ego have made us think anything made in a foreign country is inferior. No, it's not in all cases, in some cases yes it it.

I dont' understand the vehemence you display. Those that are buying OBX are obviously not taking money out of your pockets, as they can't afford what you are offering... or choose not to pay more for what appears to be basically the same thing.

If Kooks has a problem with it, then they can pursue international copyrights violations charges... I'm not an attorney, but there is probably some option for them... but then I guess that cost would be passed on to the customer as well.

Automated manufacturing has taken hold and most anything can be made by machines, much faster, and of better quality than people can... Not in all cases, but in most....

Do you think all of the OBX headers are made on a machine... I doubt it... So, after the initial run, by Kooks, ARH etc...which I venture pays for most of the development and set up cost, why do the prices not come down... they do in virtually every other market.

I for one pay attention to the conversations and attitudes displayed by Vendors when I am reading a thread... and make a lot of my purchasing decisions based on what I hear/read...

Lighten up, look at the items around you, and determine if anything in your business or home is foreign made... If there is anything, then you would be the pot calling the kettle black... Have you ever driven a foreign car, watched a TV made in Japan, etc... I realize you base the backbone of your argument on the copying of a design, but that goes on everywhere, and it is for the OEM to pursue it, not someone on an automotive forum.

I personally am getting ready to lay out a huge sum of money, for an American made and designed product for my Camaro, several of them actually... but that certainly doesn't mean that in some cases, I would not buy from a foreign company.

Wal-Mart, one of the largest employers in the country... helping the economy in so many ways.... let them go out of business and see how much unemployment goes up...

Oh, and do you manufacture anything, or do you simply buy, mark up and re-sell things??? Just curious... if thats all you do, then how are you benefiting anyone other than yourself....???

I have NOTHING against maryland speed..

but well spoken....

Its a way of life...happens daily, no matter how hard you said it don't..... and unfortunately the value of a dollar is way down, cheaper products come into play.

I Sure as hell dont have 1500 for headers myself.....

image is indeed everything.No matter what business your in.

[CamaroCowboy]

Originally Posted by ctk1

Hey guys, I'm seriously considering these as well, but I have a couple of questions for the guys that have these. First, how much louder will it make the car? I have a loudmouth I on my car and I really don't want it to be obnoxious. 2nd, Can you run cats with these? Is there some sort of adapter or will the factory exhaust bolt right up?
3rd, has anyone dynoed their car before and after to see the gains? Thanks guys!

Alot louder......check my sound.....I have no mufflers, no cats...





the first one is on the dyno and the second one is before I had my car tuned. Yes you can run cats. You can buy any cats you want and have them welded in or buy catted mid pipes. I will be buying catted mid pipes before my next inspection. There is a off road pipe that comes with them to connect to stock or any aftermarket exhaust until you get cats. I ran a dyno run before tune and after tune but not stock...sorry I just couldn't spend the 300 bucks to get a base line dyno run...However I can tell you the average dyno for LS3 is around 370 ish......I ended up with 400 RWHP before tune and 413 RWHP after tune......

[kbui]

Great post Robert! I also wonder what would happen to 60-70%+ of the people in this country if they can buy these "cheap????" foreign made household products, cloths, furnitures and a few millions other products from Walmart.

If only these American manufacturers would be more competitive pricewise, I don't think OBX will be so popular. The argument is always back to R&D. I am working as a R&D researcher and I still can't see how these headers makers can keep their prices so high after the first few hundred sets were sold. Spread out the costs of your initial investments over the next 4-5 years to keep prices down instead of trying to recover it all back up front. I think a similar setup of Kooks' at a $500 price point (20% higher than OBX) there would not be these hates of OBX buyers.

[ctk1]

Originally Posted by CamaroCowboy

Alot louder......check my sound.....I have no mufflers, no cats...





the first one is on the dyno and the second one is before I had my car tuned. Yes you can run cats. You can buy any cats you want and have them welded in or buy catted mid pipes. I will be buying catted mid pipes before my next inspection. There is a off road pipe that comes with them to connect to stock or any aftermarket exhaust until you get cats. I ran a dyno run before tune and after tune but not stock...sorry I just couldn't spend the 300 bucks to get a base line dyno run...However I can tell you the average dyno for LS3 is around 370 ish......I ended up with 400 RWHP before tune and 413 RWHP after tune......

Thanks man! I think I have a new addition to my Christmas list! Along with a catted midpipe! Thanks again and good luck with the car. It sounds like a beast!

[CamaroCowboy]

Your welcome.......I am always happy to help.

[thesnoopster]

All I can say is.... damn thats loud!! ... As far as the headers goes... you get what your pockets can afford.... if you like them... roll with it

[RedJewel2SS]

i could not agree with MarylandSpeed more!

do your research before skimping on a header that is cheaper!

have fun when the cheap ceramic coating comes off and they start to rust and look like this:


i'd love for an independent company to test the materials used, and overall design to the Kooks headers! i bet they are identical in design, but lower grade steel!

BTW, i have American Racing Headers on my car, almost 10,000 miles, uncoated, and look just like the day i bought them after a few heat cycles!

[CamaroCowboy]

They are 304 stainless not mild steel ceramic coated like pacesetter

[SS 376]

Originally Posted by kbui

Great post Robert! I also wonder what would happen to 60-70%+ of the people in this country if they can buy these "cheap????" foreign made household products, cloths, furnitures and a few millions other products from Walmart.

If only these American manufacturers would be more competitive pricewise, I don't think OBX will be so popular. The argument is always back to R&D. I am working as a R&D researcher and I still can't see how these headers makers can keep their prices so high after the first few hundred sets were sold. Spread out the costs of your initial investments over the next 4-5 years to keep prices down instead of trying to recover it all back up front. I think a similar setup of Kooks' at a $500 price point (20% higher than OBX) there would not be these hates of OBX buyers.

Easy. The American manufacturers aren't really competing with each other. American Racing, Kooks, Stainless Works, Borla, all great brands for sure, but all more or less the same price. I think people there work hard to turn out a real good header but I don't anyone there is saying 'is there a way we can turn out a good header for less money?' But look at something like LCD TVs: it was only a few years ago when it used to be that you couldn't get anything for less than $2000. Nowadays, you can find a real nice 46" for less $1000.