long tube install. obx stainless 304.

[RX SS RACERX]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

I was only speaking of the legal for sale in the US, available in your local Walgreens, WalMart, Target, Eckerd, CVS, Jewel, etc type medications and legally operated US Pharmacies..

I can't even count how many times I dispensed Hydrocodone w/APAP in the Rx over Vicodin/Lorcet/Lortab, etc and Propoxyphene Napsalyate over Darvocet.

Understood. Ya know I used to enjoy this gig, but it gets harder and harder-especially unlocking my own front door! Sorry for the off-topic guys and gals

[FRANK121]

Personally I'm going to purchase what I can afford and search for the best deal.

All you guys getting upset with the purchase of knock offs and so ...... Isn't our Camaro's made/assembled in Canada

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

It was already established in a previous thread that they were knock off Kooks. I think everyone decided it's okay however because the wallet matters more and everyone buys stuff from Walmart that is made in China(?). So far no one has been burned by fit or quality because well..it is welded pipe. If you scew up copying someones welded pipe you deserve what is coming. However do your research because there are threads on other forums of people who have had issues with stuff made by this brand and been left high and dry.


I know the same 5-6 people who populate these threads will jump all over me..but whatever. I think it should always be mentioned where these headers come from. Just like Walmart, it is easy to feel good about a cheap price untill you realize what is really behind it. Your basically buying a stolen design, made over seas with no warranty and support. I am sure kooks could match their price if they were allowed to skate by with that level of support and service and their only sales outlet was ebay. If you want to mod your car with the equivelent of a fake Rolex than more power to you.

you are 100% right .... thats why i stick to the best/ better name brands... i got a corsa exhaust K&N CAI, and tomorrow kooks headers... all are highly know brands .. and will have the least problems .. you get what you pay for, why go cheap on this car... i just don't get it... if you cant afford to get the better things you shouldn't try to go cheaper, just save up. because you might have problems with the cheaper setups ...

[CamaroCowboy]

so what..............I don't care if they are a stolen design, knock offs or whatever else people want to call them............Its my car and I will do with it as I see fit................

[bigsquirrel]

Originally Posted by SS 376

I 1000% agree with you on China. There's no way America can compete with near-slave labor and a manipulated currency. And I'd support a 100% tariff on Chinese goods until they let their currency appreciate. China needs us a whole lot more than we need them. After all, I'm pretty sure the US was ok before China Inc. showed up, but China was 'the sick man of Asia' before we came along.

Still, that's a separate matter from whether ARH, Kooks and Co. are keeping prices somewhat artificially high... If ARH or Kooks are barely scraping by on a 3-5% profit margin, then I would say foreign-made stuff like OBX, Pacesetter and JBA (made in Mexico) is killing them. But if it costs $150 or $200 for Kooks, etc. to make headers, then it's hard to feel bad. And this is coming from someone who ONLY has American-made stuff on his car.

Eh, I'd say call around I just got catted Kooks for about a G. These are $400 shipped add on some decent cats and your talking 700 shipped, it's really only a few hundred dollars more for the real thing. If they sell the chinese knockoffs for 400 produced by machines/kids/beaten women etc... there's no way Kooks cost is anywhere near to that. I'd imagine 600-800 per catted set material and labor. So depending on what you pay for them their net on each is 30 to 40%, compared to most industries, that's pretty low, hell anything under 100% is pretty low for a business that is not high velocity but specialty.

Check this video out it's a tour of their shop in NC it gives you an idea of what goes into making these, it ain't cheap!

[2010 2-Tone]

I am going to give you a different look on this. I was looking at several brands of headers. ARH, OBX, Stainless Works, and Kooks. I spoke with several people that had the OBX and all of them loved them but I ended up going with the Kooks from Maryland Speed. What some people fail to understand is IT WAS MY DECISION. The comments made by Branden are very much out of line. As a business man and a sponsor on this site he should be embarressed coming across as he did. I do understand his passion for his product but IMO he went way too far. I can't see how making those type of statements helps his business at all! No one walks around when he shops at Wal-Mart, Krogers, Home Depot, Lowes, or any other retail business talking about how cheap he is or the quality is of the items in his basket. Just let people spend their money on what they want to spend it on because, O YEAH it is THEIR money. This is not an attact on Branden but is on his comments. Branden took care of my transaction like a professional.

[john468]

You know I bought 2 sets of CC headers one from Hooker and the other from Hedman and both sets rusted!! These are expense headers not junk. I called both companies and was told to send them back and they would recoat them but I had to pay the s/h both ways!! What it was going to cost me to ship I found a OFF brand for the price to ship. You now what, they are not rusting!! What about my labor taking them on and off? These big companies don't care about how faithful you are, it's all about money.
Look at the prices of CAI's $400-$500 for a pipe and filter, come on. They are ripping us off and we let them get away with it. The prices are high because it's a new model car, look back in ayear or two. CAI's will be $195
I buying what I want not what anybody else wants. Peace

[CamaroCowboy]

Well said...........

[MarylandSpeed]

I think you need to reread my post. You obviously have trouble seeing the difference between a company designing their own products, and then making them in China and selling them through normal retail channels with real support and warranty (ipod for instance) vs. what is going on here where a company is stealing anothers designs and dumping it on ebay in a fake Rolex flea market way. If they want to design their own headers and sell them in a reputable way with support, I would not have one complaint. But then again the headers would cost a bit more too.

Are you willing to accept a set of Kooks made in China with no warranty or support?

Originally Posted by axis

Go back and read your posts. While you apparently have no problem with buying cheap chinese knock offs of american products at Wally world, you do have a problem with headers? Is it a fair comparison? I guess that depends on what you sell. Where do you draw the line? If you just wanted everyone to know how and where these are made, that's fine. Coming back over and over to hammer it in is something different. No one comes into the ARH, Kooks, etc threads to say they are overpriced and perform no better than the cheap knockoffs. I'm not debating whether this is ethical or not, just wondering why people jump in these threads in order to make the reviewers come across as unamerican. I think we all got where and how these are made in the first 5 threads on them. This is the same crap that came up when Pacesetter put out their headers. You could put out the mild steel arguement to discount those. I think the heat is on now that 304SS headers have hit the market for half the price of other well known headers. In the end, it's the end consumers $$ and they will spend it how they wish.

[KnightRiderSS]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

I think you need to reread my post. You obviously have trouble seeing the difference between a company designing their own products, and then making them in China vs. what is going on here where a company is stealing anothers designs. If they want to design their own headers and sell them in a reputable way with support, I would not have one complaint. But then again the headers would cost a bit more too.

This may be a dumb question....and I in no way want to stir the pot...but...

If these really are knock offs....why hasn't anyone sued the company that makes them for copyright infringement to get them to stop producing them?

Also, I don't really get the oakley/rolex reference....They aren't making them in China and calling them Kooks...They are making them in China and calling them OBXs....

Plus, they aren't even manufactured the same way kooks are...the way they made the bends and welds are different....

I could fab up a set that look like these to use but would they be knock offs too?

Just sayin.....

[MarylandSpeed]

George R posted a while back..they look exactly like Kooks right down to the bends. Additionally, this company has a reputation earned long before the Camaro for knocking stuff off. They don't design anything and that is well known. All their shorty headers are JBA's.

With Kooks, their main perceived value is their fit and finish. A lot like a Rolex. sure any watch can tell time, but you know the way a Rolex is made, it is the best you can buy. So in copying Kooks bends, this company is able to steal their fit, which is one of the main advantagesthe brand is built on. You also can't tell me that there are not customers who somehow see an advantage to the ebay headers knowing they knocked Kooks off.

Originally Posted by KnightRiderSS

This may be a dumb question....and I in no way want to stir the pot...but...

If these really are knock offs....why hasn't anyone sued the company that makes them for copyright infringement to get them to stop producing them?

Also, I don't really get the oakley/rolex reference....They aren't making them in China and calling them Kooks...They are making them in China and calling them OBXs....

Plus, they aren't even manufactured the same way kooks are...the way they made the bends and welds are different....

I could fab up a set that look like these to use but would they be knock offs too?

Just sayin.....

[Entaille]

MarylandSpeed, you are wasting your time trying to convince anyone of anything. I would post your two cents and bow out of these threads each time they surface.

I appreciate and agree with your enthusiasm on this topic - it needs to be said, and people need to understand what they are supporting by saving a buck on knock offs.. but they will believe what they want to believe, and they will buy what they want to buy, and they will argue to no end on this one .. : [

+1 on OBX developing an item copying/stealing reputation LONG before Camaro headers. they've been ripping things off for years.

[MarylandSpeed]

I agree and fully understand that people will buy what they want. I am just here to say "Hey this is not the money saving Eutopia it appears".

Originally Posted by Entaille

MarylandSpeed, you are wasting your time trying to convince anyone of anything. I would post your two cents and bow out of these threads each time they surface.

I appreciate and agree with your enthusiasm on this topic - it needs to be said, and people need to understand what they are supporting by saving a buck on knock offs.. but they will believe what they want to believe, and they will buy what they want to buy, and they will argue to no end on this one .. : [

[SSE 4 2SS]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

Judgeing by our sales, I think our argument resonates quite well.



We are not talking a Walmart Sayno cheap TV. We are talking fake flea market fake Oakley, Rolex, or Nike stuff. I have no problem with any manufactuer selling anything. However design your own product and sell it through a real channel. Knocking off other work and dumping it on ebay with no support is not a level of service most Camaro5 members would support except it is OMG cheap. Wonder if this Chinabay company will be sponsoring Camaro5 or Camaro5fest?



I understand times are tough. We work hard every day to keep prices low so customers can afford to mod their car and get value for their dollar. However I DO NOT understand the argument that "The economy is bad, times are tough, so I have to mod my brand new $40K sports car with knock off Chinese parts".?



Again, in case you missed it. This is not outsourcing. This is not Levi's making jeans in China. This is not Apple making iPods in China. This is an overseas company stealing an American one's designs, making them in an overseas sweat shop and dumping them here on ebay with no warranty and support.



I am upset because people keep up with the stupid Walmart argument to jusify buying them. So what Walmart sells stuff made in China? You can't buy a fake flea market Rolex or Oakleys at Walmart. I am also upset because people look at these headers and then try and make out like a company like Kooks, ARH, or SW is ripping them off. There is an obvious difference in overhead between what someone like Kooks is doing and what this other company is doing. Kooks, ARH, and SW are very competitive. If one could undercut the other they would. The simple fact is, to run the kind of business in the US they do, that is what it cost.

I have thought long and hard about this..and my personal feeling is that silence is aquiesence. The one thing I can do is bring to light what is going on here. Even though sometimes I feel like I have people putting their thumbs in their ears and going "cheap headers, cheap headers, cheap headers" I will be there in every thread to remind people what is up here. Just like the same 5 people want to come in every thread and talk like they are gods gift to headers. If someone does not like my opinion and choses not to buy from me, whatever. I can honestly live with that.

That being said, I think that if this were happening at anyone elses place of employment, their opinion would change drasically.




Correct. And remember Kooks are already way too expensive.



I know from talking to Kooks they looked at Robots, and are still looking at it. However when you make a lot of different stuff like Kooks does, some efficiancy is lost by a robot that is not as flexible as a human.



R&D is one cost of running a business. Unfortunatly other costs do not go down. Things like insurance, wages, mortgage, taxes, materials, marketing all go up more often than down.



Again...as stated above. This is not Levi's making jeans in China. This is the second an American company make a product, pretty much an exact copy shows up on ebay. The whole value in Kooks is their fit, and if you steal the bend data, you steal the product. I think at some point mentally, you have draw a line.



Again the Walmart argument. People had jobs before Walmart existed. Odds are without Walmart, there would be other retail jobs. Would those people be better off working somewhere besides Walmart? Thats not for me to decide.



Not sure what you are getting at here? Yes I am a business, and I am here to resell parts at a profit. Just like oh mighty Walmart or Mr. Ebay knock off header. The difference is I support the community by going to shows, testing the parts I sell, and so forth. I have provided my customers with outstanding support.

That being said, we do spend a lot of time and money developing new products with Kooks. One of my Camaro's has been through 4 sets of cats testing a new part we are working on and will not release till it is perfect.

This was a well thought, point supported, redress without making me want to throttle someone.
Rather than a rant, which I guess I understand in some cases, (though I still think this is not the place for it...) you hit on points, and responded tit for tat.

I appreciate it and it is food for thought.

You have earned some respect points from me for it.

Again, I look closely at the statements made by Vendors and most certainly by sponsors here on my favorite forum. I'm looking again at a major purchase in the next two to three months and the vendor/Sponsor I am using impressed me with his products as well as his Character...

I look forward to meeting you and all of the other vendors and Sponsors at the Fest, to see what you are offering and to learn more about what is available out there, and again as before,

Most of All, Thanks for Your Sponsorship

Now, I'm really out...