long tube install. obx stainless 304.

[bigsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Entaille

MarylandSpeed, you are wasting your time trying to convince anyone of anything. I would post your two cents and bow out of these threads each time they surface.

I appreciate and agree with your enthusiasm on this topic - it needs to be said, and people need to understand what they are supporting by saving a buck on knock offs.. but they will believe what they want to believe, and they will buy what they want to buy, and they will argue to no end on this one .. : [

+1 on OBX developing an item copying/stealing reputation LONG before Camaro headers. they've been ripping things off for years.

I don't agree, I think all the vendors need to post in here I'd love to see Kooks in here but I'd be afraid the site would lose a sponsor. These don't belong here this is a VENDOR supported community. If China made a knock off Camaro and called the it the Comora would you come here and talk about your purchase, even if it was equal in quality as these supposedly are? Kooks cuts this website a check every month so we can all share are ideas and successes and people thank them by buying a copy of their product from China a bragging about it. I ordered a set 1 7/8 set of Kooks LT with cats from Maryland speed today largely because of this post.

[turborenegade]

wow. this thread went wild. i keep hearing warranty and customer service. i had one of the biggest header makers in the world 10 yrs ago give me the big sausage. hedman. so as far as customer service and warranty i could care less. warranty means nothing to me. after taking my car to the hedman factory in ga. they told me to take a torch and floor jack and bend the headers up under the car. they knew they hung down like that but would not fix there gig after i spent over $450.00 for a set of husler big tube headers. so i bought me a tig cut the headers apart and rewelded them to a perfect fit. i am not saying any other manufacturers run there business this way. but quality to me is material. i.e. stainless 304.on both tube and flange material. machining and flatness. and i do know how to check material. and to sum it up weld joints, i am also a certified welder. and fitment on vehicle. beyond that i dont need any warranty or support. these will outlast the car. thanks for all the positive posts. i am not telling anyone to buy obx. just giving a review you make your own choice.

[SS 376]

Originally Posted by KnightRiderSS

This may be a dumb question....and I in no way want to stir the pot...but...

If these really are knock offs....why hasn't anyone sued the company that makes them for copyright infringement to get them to stop producing them?

I'm not a patent attorney but my guess is that Kooks, etc. didn't patent the actual header design. Copyrights are for things like books, musical compositions, etc. Patents are for industrial designs and what-not. If you have a patent, it is a somewhat straightforward process to get an injunction against someone infringing your patent.

[MarylandSpeed]

Hedman is an old school header brand. Kooks is not perfect by any means, but if you spend $1,000 on their headers they will not leave you high and dry on a warranty.

Originally Posted by turborenegade

wow. this thread went wild. i keep hearing warranty and customer service. i had one of the biggest header makers in the world 10 yrs ago give me the big sausage. hedman. so as far as customer service and warranty i could care less. warranty means nothing to me. after taking my car to the hedman factory in ga. they told me to take a torch and floor jack and bend the headers up under the car. they knew they hung down like that but would not fix there gig after i spent over $450.00 for a set of husler big tube headers. so i bought me a tig cut the headers apart and rewelded them to a perfect fit. i am not saying any other manufacturers run there business this way. but quality to me is material. i.e. stainless 304.on both tube and flange material. machining and flatness. and i do know how to check material. and to sum it up weld joints, i am also a certified welder. and fitment on vehicle. beyond that i dont need any warranty or support. these will outlast the car. thanks for all the positive posts. i am not telling anyone to buy obx. just giving a review you make your own choice.

[turborenegade]

thanks marylandspeed. and i believe you. i have heard nothing bad. ever about kooks.

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

Hedman is an old school header brand. Kooks is not perfect by any means, but if you spend $1,000 on their headers they will not leave you high and dry on a warranty.

[RX SS RACERX]

I may have missed this as this thread has gone viral. Has anyone that bought OBX ever had an issue and needed it resolved. If so,how was it handled? Who did you contact? Just wondering.

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by RX SS RACERX

I may have missed this as this thread has gone viral. Has anyone that bought OBX ever had an issue and needed it resolved. If so,how was it handled? Who did you contact? Just wondering.

now thats the question

[turborenegade]

since i started this particular thread i will answer this. my install and fitment was perfect. no need to contact anyone. but in the future something comes up i did get a limited lifetime warranty on these. at least thats what the warranty registration card says. lets say a weld cracks or tube splits or something else related to material or craftmanship. i will post a thread and respond on how this was handled and hold nothing back good or bad.

Originally Posted by RX SS RACERX

I may have missed this as this thread has gone viral. Has anyone that bought OBX ever had an issue and needed it resolved. If so,how was it handled? Who did you contact? Just wondering.

[Dion_1969]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

I think you need to reread my post. You obviously have trouble seeing the difference between a company designing their own products, and then making them in China and selling them through normal retail channels with real support and warranty (ipod for instance) vs. what is going on here where a company is stealing anothers designs and dumping it on ebay in a fake Rolex flea market way. If they want to design their own headers and sell them in a reputable way with support, I would not have one complaint. But then again the headers would cost a bit more too.

Are you willing to accept a set of Kooks made in China with no warranty or support?

I'll say it again....

For all those that keep talking about Kooks being ripped off because they put all this design work into their headers and OBX just copies them I just want to mention Patent Protection. There is protection available to Kooks if they Patent their product. While the Louis Vuitton knock offs are abundant people get busted for selling them because they have patent protection. Kooks has not gone after OBX so either they don't care or they don't meet the standard for patent protection ie they have developed something new or original that can be recognized as that companies original creative design. For example ask why there are no Doug Thorely tri-y knock offs. It may be because no one cares to copy them or they have patented that design. They have been doing it for 50 years so I suspect the Patent is up but....

Also and this is for Maryland speed-why if, as you said, stainless adds $200 to the cost can I not find stainless longtubes from a "American Brand" for $500. Pace setters have been mentioned as an acceptable mild steel alternative and I see them advertised for $299 on your site but I'm Supposed to pay a grand to Kooks, SLP or ARH? Sorry the math doesn't add up. If you want to put me in a 1 7/8th stainless header for $500 PM me.

[RedJewel2SS]

they may have tried, but it is tough to say it is their design they stole... notice the OBX primaries are several pieces welded together to make one primary. the Kooks headers have one continuous primary per cylinder.

Originally Posted by Dion_1969

I'll say it again....

For all those that keep talking about Kooks being ripped off because they put all this design work into their headers and OBX just copies them I just want to mention Patent Protection. There is protection available to Kooks if they Patent their product. While the Louis Vuitton knock offs are abundant people get busted for selling them because they have patent protection. Kooks has not gone after OBX so either they don't care or they don't meet the standard for patent protection ie they have developed something new or original that can be recognized as that companies original creative design. For example ask why there are no Doug Thorely tri-y knock offs. It may be because no one cares to copy them or they have patented that design. They have been doing it for 50 years so I suspect the Patent is up but....

Also and this is for Maryland speed-why if, as you said, stainless adds $200 to the cost can I not find stainless longtubes from a "American Brand" for $500. Pace setters have been mentioned as an acceptable mild steel alternative and I see them advertised for $299 on your site but I'm Supposed to pay a grand to Kooks, SLP or ARH? Sorry the math doesn't add up. If you want to put me in a 1 7/8th stainless header for $500 PM me.

[RedJewel2SS]

some people prefer just to buy stuff because it is cheaper than the rest, no matter where it is made.

i'd rather support our own country's workers and retailers over something made God knows where out of God knows what and sold on eBay.

until it has been proven they are stainless steel, i would take that statement out of an eBay ad with a grain of salt.

easy way to show this: for those of you that have installed these and have a couple thousand miles, and even driven some in the rain with these headers installed; if you have time go out, unbolt your exhaust, move the exhaust back enough so you can see inside the headers, and take a picture to prove to us if it is true stainless or not. if its not, then there will be surface rust!

i would be happy to do the exact same thing with my ARH headers that have a few thousand miles on them, and been on the car for over a year.


also, why don't they have a website???

[Hicompression]

Originally Posted by RX SS RACERX

I may have missed this as this thread has gone viral. Has anyone that bought OBX ever had an issue and needed it resolved. If so,how was it handled? Who did you contact? Just wondering.

Originally Posted by turborenegade

since i started this particular thread i will answer this. my install and fitment was perfect. no need to contact anyone. but in the future something comes up i did get a limited lifetime warranty on these. at least thats what the warranty registration card says. lets say a weld cracks or tube splits or something else related to material or craftmanship. i will post a thread and respond on how this was handled and hold nothing back good or bad.

Ditto here to what turborenegade said. My install went perfect. They are an excellent set headers at an excellent price. I'd recommend them to anybody.

Oh...and...I bought a 12 pack of Dr. "K" for $1.99 at Kroger today. Shame on me for trying to save a buck. They do taste exactly like Dr. Pepper though!

Originally Posted by RedJewel2SS

also, why don't they have a website???

They do:

http://www.obxracingsports.com/

[RedJewel2SS]

hmm... i saw that in a google search but didn't think it was the same.

that website hasn't been updated since 2007

they got an F from the BBB
http://www.bbb.org/greater-san-franc...isco-ca-315289

* 6 complaints filed against business
* Failure to respond to 5 complaints filed against business.
* BBB does not have sufficient information to determine how long this business has been operating.
* BBB does not have sufficient background information on this business.

whatever floats your boat, if you want to risk quality to save a buck, go right ahead... i wouldn't risk it! if anyone ends up with issues, good luck with the "lifetime warranty"

[MarylandSpeed]

Originally Posted by RX SS RACERX

I may have missed this as this thread has gone viral. Has anyone that bought OBX ever had an issue and needed it resolved. If so,how was it handled? Who did you contact? Just wondering.

A few links I found on Google-

http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=178630

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/genera...x-headers.html

http://www.clubfrontier.org/forums/f...ers-4-0l-8933/

Originally Posted by Dion_1969

I'll say it again....

For all those that keep talking about Kooks being ripped off because they put all this design work into their headers and OBX just copies them I just want to mention Patent Protection. There is protection available to Kooks if they Patent their product. While the Louis Vuitton knock offs are abundant people get busted for selling them because they have patent protection. Kooks has not gone after OBX so either they don't care or they don't meet the standard for patent protection ie they have developed something new or original that can be recognized as that companies original creative design. For example ask why there are no Doug Thorely tri-y knock offs. It may be because no one cares to copy them or they have patented that design. They have been doing it for 50 years so I suspect the Patent is up but....

A patent is expensive to get, and even more expensive to enforce. Kooks actually has a patent on the merge spike in their headers. But a patent runs $5-$15K to apply for..so figure out what that costs for each part number. Then if someone infringes on it, you are looking at hundreds of thousands in legal fees to sue and enforce. And that is if you are lucky enough to be dealing with a domestic company. Someone in China, forget it. Louis Vuitton enforces their trademarks, not patents which are easier to attain and protect. Unfortunatly, you can't trademark a header. As everyone complains, Kooks is already too expensive..and this process would just add to that.

Also and this is for Maryland speed-why if, as you said, stainless adds $200 to the cost can I not find stainless longtubes from a "American Brand" for $500. Pace setters have been mentioned as an acceptable mild steel alternative and I see them advertised for $299 on your site but I'm Supposed to pay a grand to Kooks, SLP or ARH? Sorry the math doesn't add up. If you want to put me in a 1 7/8th stainless header for $500 PM me.

Several Factors Here-

Fabrication Costs- Pacesetters are MIG welded mild steel. Kooks are TIG welded 304 stainless. The stainless costs more, but the real kicker in working with stainless is the TIG welding. TIG welding takes 3x as long, and requires a more skilled welder who makes more money. Kooks will put a welder on Camaro headers and he will make 30-40 in a week. Also Kooks uses more advanced benders than Pacesetter, which cost more, but allow for one peice primaries instead of several peices welded togethor. Lastly is the quality. Pacesetters are okay for the price, but the welding looks like a high school shop project compared to Kooks. Also, Kooks does things like weld their flanges inside and out, where a Pacesetter header will be outside only.

Features Costs- Kooks headers have a lot more features which add up. Kooks has O2 extensions, Pacesetter does not. Add $35 There. Then there is the cost of the stainless hardware, ball and socket connections, merge collector, merge spike. and so forth. When you add the cost of the features and added production time in doing it all in stainless your likely talking $200-$300 there.

Originally Posted by RedJewel2SS

they may have tried, but it is tough to say it is their design they stole... notice the OBX primaries are several pieces welded together to make one primary. the Kooks headers have one continuous primary per cylinder.

The headers are the same. ebay headers use primaries made of many peices welded togethor because they don't have the advanced benders to bend one peice of pipe like Kooks does.