Bad news tomorrow?...

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Nickdago

Shares in Toyota Motor tumbled down 12.6 percent when its stock resumed trade on Friday after the world's biggest automaker shocked investors with a warning that profits this year would hit a 13-year low.


David Zalubowski / AP
Toyota.
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Toyota [TM 67.09 -13.28 (-16.52%) ] was untraded with sell orders at 3,310 yen in the morning, after falling 16.5 percent on Wall Street amid big problems for American automakers who are lobbying for government assistance as sales slide.

The broader market declined sharply on Toyota's surprise outlook cut, with many likening it to the "Sony shock" in April 2003, when a huge quarterly loss by Sony sparked a two-day sell-off.

But some investors said the situation was even worse for Toyota, given the deterioration in the global economy.

"The Sony shock came when the overall economy was on the rise, so it was taken as the end of the bad news, but this time, it is in the middle of an economic slowdown," said Tomomi Yamashita, fund manager of Shinkin Asset Management.

"Compared with the Sony shock, it will probably take Toyota's share price longer to return to a solid recovery path," he said.

In Tokyo, Toyota shares fell 10 percent on Thursday ahead of the profit warning after a newspaper reported that its operating profit could fall below 1 trillion yen ($10 billion) in the year to March 2009, less than half the profit seen last year.

But the damage was much greater, with Toyota announcing after the Tokyo market close that it expected an annual operating profit of 600 billion yen -- the lowest since 1995/96 and down 60 percent from its previous forecast.

For the year to March 31, the world's biggest automaker now expects operating profit of 600 billion yen ($6.1 billion) versus a previous forecast of 1.6 trillion yen. A poll of 17 brokerages had forecast 1.34 trillion yen.

The maker of the Camry sedan, Prius gas-electric hybrid and Tundra pickup truck now expects net profit of 550 billion yen instead of 1.25 trillion yen.

Toyota , until recently the envy of the industry with eight straight years of profit growth, has had to put factories on hold, release temporary staff and offer buyers unprecedented incentives as sales in the crucial U.S. market slumped further than it expected.

With two months remaining this year, Toyota's U.S. sales are down 12 percent to date, forcing it to lower its forecast there this week for the second time in four months.

Toyota's July-September operating profit fell 72 percent to 169.5 billion yen, while net profit sank 69 percent to 139.8 billion yen. Shares in Toyota have lost 37 percent in the year to date, better than the 43 percent decline in Tokyo's transport sub-index.

The company reported a record 2.27 trillion yen profit last year, but the industry's woes have seen its shares slide by a third this year, to 3,870 on Thursday -- in line with a similar fall in Tokyo's transport sector subindex.

The Tokyo Shimbun reported last month that Toyota's operating profit would be 1-1.2 trillion yen, but said growing woes in the sector would mean a further downgrade to below 1 trillion yen ($10 billion).


U.S. Blues

Toyota, the maker of the Camry sedan, Prius gas-electric hybrid and Tundra pickup truck, has previously forecast a 30 percent fall in operating profit to 1.6 trillion yen this year.

Toyota's U.S. sales have fallen 12 percent so far this year, prompting the top Japanese automaker to lower its forecast there this week -- the second cut in four months.



Its October U.S. sales slid 26 percent from last year, while its non-minicar sales in Japan fell 13 percent.

Detroit's General Motors [GM 4.80 -0.76 (-13.67%) ], Ford Motor [F 1.98 -0.11 (-5.26%) ] and Chrysler LLC are faring worse, suffering sharper sales drops and struggling to return to profit.
The slump is also prompting talk of mergers between GM and Chrysler as sales plunge and they face deep losses.

The impact of the global credit crisis has spread to emerging markets such as China and India, throwing a wrench in automakers' plans to seek strong growth there to offset slumping sales in the big U.S. and European markets.

Toyota's announcement will complete a brutal earnings season for Japanese carmakers. Of the eight, only Fuji Heavy Industries did not lower its annual forecasts. Nissan Motor [NSANY 8.57 -1.10 (-11.38%) ] shocked investors last week by more than halving its operating profit forecast.

Toyota just wasn't meant to be number 1. Their first year trying to fill the role will end in massive economic disaster. They should learn to accept their place in the industry.

I really think that GM has to draw attention to the market problems. This is a big announcement because it may impact government policy over the next year if the new administration pays any attention. Hopefully, the administration is fairly protectionist about the US economy.

[playhard67]

it's up:

http://www.gm.com/corporate/investor...ings/index.jsp

[Inspector 17]

GM Results Are Delayed Past Schedule; Trading Halted (Update1)

By Jeff Green and Mike Ramsey

Nov. 7 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp.'s release of its third-quarter financial results was delayed today past the scheduled time of 10:30 a.m. in Detroit. GM had no immediate comment.

Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner's 10:30 a.m. Bloomberg Television interview was moved to 12:55 p.m. New York Stock Exchange trading in GM's shares was halted at 11:04 a.m. pending news.

[Maddog78]

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/081107/clf042.html?.v=101


They are bleeding nearly $2 billion/month!

By the time the Camaro is due to hit the roads they could well be in Chapter 11.

[Crowley]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/07/news...ion=2008110711

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- General Motors shook an already embattled auto industry Friday as it reported a huge loss that was much worse than expected and warned it is in danger of running out of cash in the coming months.

GM, the nation's largest automaker, reported it lost $4.2 billion, or $7.35 a share, excluding special items. That's up from the loss $1.6 billion or $2.86 a share it reported a year earlier and was far worse than the forecast of analysts surveyed by earnings tracker Thomson Reuters, which had forecast a loss of $3.70 a share.

But the most shocking news came in its statements about its cash position. GM said it had burned through $6.9 billion during the quarter and warned that it "will approach the minimum amount necessary to operate its business" during the current quarter.

In addition, the company said that that in the first half of next year its "estimated liquidity will fall significantly short of that amount unless economic and automotive industry conditions significantly improve."

The report was by far the most grim assessment by a company that has insisted it is not considering filing for bankruptcy court protection. While the release did not mention the threat of bankruptcy, the outlook appeared to raise the possibility of such a dramatic step.

The company announced a series of additional job cuts and spending cuts designed to help it improve its cash reserves by $5 billion. But it warned even those steps would not be enough without a turnaround.

GM said that it may need help from the federal government.

"The company has engaged in discussions with various U.S. federal government agencies and congressional leaders about the ... the need for immediate government funding support given the economic and credit crisis and its impact on the industry, including consumers, dealers, suppliers and manufacturers," according to a company announcement.

Shares of GM (GM, Fortune 500), whose trading was halted ahead of the announcement, fell 16% after they resumed.

[Speedy1975]

Folks, I believe we're living through a 21st century great depression.

[Scott@Bjorn3D]

Yes we are going to be in a great depression.

I hope that GM's upper management are taking big paycuts to help keep the company going. To many times a company in this kind of trouble kills tons of workers jobs but still pay themselves 100's of thousands if not millions.

[Jak]

Not good, not good at all. Though I can't say I'm broke up over toyotas problems. Okey just something to add onto what was said earlier about the wallstreet bailout. Anothing thing I don't understand is yes the government tried to bailout wallstreet, but lets not forget Amtrak how many billions did the government put into them? And yet the government is dragging their heels to help GM, Ford and Chrysler? Why? I'll stop now before I get into full rant mode.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Scott@Bjorn3D

Yes we are going to be in a great depression.

I hope that GM's upper management are taking big paycuts to help keep the company going. To many times a company in this kind of trouble kills tons of workers jobs but still pay themselves 100's of thousands if not millions.

If the guys at the top take a pay cut it will be nothing more than a symbolic gesture. GM is going through $2B a month, a few million a year is nothing.

[MrIcky]

We are not in a Great Depression, at least not yet. You lack historical perspective. 24.9% of the nation was unemployed during the great depression, and that was at a time when women did not count to any significant degree in employment numbers. People weren't talking about not buying cars, they were talking about not eating.

The jobless rate was 7.1% during the first year of JFK (it's in the mid-6's right now). It peaked at 9% under Ford and that was not a recession. It was 7.8% under Carter and that was a recession. Under Carter there was a high inflation rate that made everything much worse. There were far fewer employees in this time frame too.

That's not to say that it isn't possible to have a Depression again. It would be almost impossible to have a Depression without the world joining in. The major powers of the G7(8) understand the mechanics of the Depression much better now than they did then. Insuring peoples bank accounts has made a large difference in preventing a run on banks. Stepping in to save several key banks quickly and shoring up a percentage of foreclosures will make a difference as well.

There has also been a significant period of increased unemployment as major military operations grind to an end in every major overseas deployment since WW1. The US is starting to enter a drawdown mode in Iraq.

For sure, the next several months (maybe years) will be very rough - however I take exception to the word Depression being thrown around loosely.

All that being said, I extend my sympathies to the effected employees of GM and other companies that have seen large layoffs lately. This will also be a tough time for returning soldiers coming home and trying to enter an already tough job market over the next 2 years.

(Sorry for the rant on that, personal issues I guess.)

[Mr. Wyndham]

I agree with ya, Mr. Icky.

I'd like to extend my thoughts on the subject...A "depression" by definition (at least the way I was taught) is an extended recession. So if this environment continues for any length of time, we could very well be in a legitimate depression. However, we have not nearly reached the severity of the Great Depression. And I pray to God we never do.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I agree with ya, Mr. Icky.

I'd like to extend my thoughts on the subject...A "depression" by definition (at least the way I was taught) is an extended recession. So if this environment continues for any length of time, we could very well be in a legitimate depression. However, we have not nearly reached the severity of the Great Depression. And I pray to God we never do.

I believe a depression is an extended significant downturn, something like 10% reduction in GDP. I think the forecast for 2008 is something like 1.5-2% reduction.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I agree with ya, Mr. Icky.

I'd like to extend my thoughts on the subject...A "depression" by definition (at least the way I was taught) is an extended recession. So if this environment continues for any length of time, we could very well be in a legitimate depression. However, we have not nearly reached the severity of the Great Depression. And I pray to God we never do.

Things are relative. A 21st Century Great Depression will look quite different from a 19th Century Great Depression. Banks are now insured (which is a good point) and the workforce is much more diverse. With the gov't in it's current form I wouldn't expect a 1930s level Depression, however for 2009, this could very well be looked at very similarly 10 years from now. That's my take.

[porcupinekiller]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

Let's hurry up and come out with the Camaro!!!

I'm sure GM would have been getting a lot of our money in some fashion or another if the Camaro wasn't coming out. But, now that we know it's coming, we've been holding on to our money.

i mean....from the ordering thread alone...how many people here ordered?
$7,280,000 on 2SS's alone.
$1,056,000 on 1SS's
$918,000 on 2LT's
$138,000 on 1LT's

ESTIMATES ONLY

comes out to about...

$9,392,000 in sales from people on THIS SITE ALONE.


There's going to be a LOT more sales (of course) that will really kick in and help out GM. I know it's going to take a LONG while for that to happen. But, by doing this, it also kinda reminded me about the polls situation....and how GM really DOES need to listen to people on this and other sites. $10 million from this site alone????

Um...yeah....they are listening!!!

GM looses more money than that everday. It's going to take much more than a few Camaro sales to pull GM out of this mess. I still think they'll pull through this tough period.