Has anyone broke one of these yet? (Rear Lower Control Arm Endlink Tab)

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by My 5th

I'm no engineer, and I don't have CAD drawings or anything, but just an observer. To me the problem is at the top of the arm bracket. Because the ball joint in the end link allows the stud to move in relationship to the endlink itself, the stud is not always perpendicular to the endlink and the arm bracket. That can be seen in how the bracket bends in at the top, because of the lever effect of the stud being applied at an angle of less than 90*, near the top of the compression stroke. The length of the arm is a "breaker bar" effect on the endlink stud. The weak spot, and where the leverage force is applied is the top of the bracket. Bigger diameter washers may help, but it looks to my uneducated eyes that the bracket needs to be thicker (and supported all the way down the back or front side). Bolt-on my work, but IMHO welding would be better.

My 2 cents.

Well said.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by PQ

But the top can still bend back and forth. Especially when the two plates will essentially be side by side and able to slide on one another. I'm saying to make it full proof the two should be welded at the top creating strength at the top of he tab. the problem starts at the top due to flexing. It's obvious to me. BOTH my control arms were the same.

I think Pete makes much more sense here. And he actually HAS my two control arms. He didn't just look at a picture of a completely failed arm and put up a drawing 'showing' failure. The second illustrations don't even match the first. Pfadts plates WELDED at the top would be more full proof. Strength at the top is where this problem will be solved, and not just alleviated for a while.

PQ,

Within the parameters of the OE arm, anything that is not welded will prolong the life of the arm, but not eliminate the problem. A welded fix is the best solution so you are correct.

Everyone,

Please allow me to remind everyone that the number of failures are very limited. We all want to make our 5th Gens as reliable as possible, while we also understand this particular failure is limited in scope. That is easier said than done when PQ has had an issue in both of his arms :( The more you build out your suspension, the less frequently you will see a failure in the LCA endlink tab. I write this so you all purchase full Justice Packages today

I write this because it is accurate. The worst case scenario for the LCA tab failure is a big rear bar and nothing else. With only the rear bar, the bar is doing the heavy lifting without any assistance from the rest of the IRS. Add Supercars with higher than OE coil rates, higher critical damping and a lowered vehicle with a lower CG and they are 'sharing' the load. A Street Xa or Supercar Street with OE bars is a phenomenally well mannered 5th Gen with OE bars. You get the idea.

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

The more you build out your suspension, the less frequently you will see a failure in the LCA endlink tab. I write this so you all purchase full Justice Packages today

I write this because it is accurate. The worst case scenario for the LCA tab failure is a big rear bar and nothing else. With only the rear bar, the bar is doing the heavy lifting without any assistance from the rest of the IRS. Add Supercars with higher than OE coil rates, higher critical damping and a lowered vehicle with a lower CG and they are 'sharing' the load. A Street Xa or Supercar Street with OE bars is a phenomenally well mannered 5th Gen with OE bars. You get the idea.

So does this mean with upgraded cradle inserts, lowering springs, sway bars, trailing arms and toe links this failure is less likely to happen?

If I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like throwing a upgraded rear sway on the car with nothing else will likely lead to a failure.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

So does this mean with upgraded cradle inserts, lowering springs, sway bars, trailing arms and toe links this failure is less likely to happen?

If I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like throwing a upgraded rear sway on the car with nothing else will likely lead to a failure.

You are spot on correct, with the caveat that there are VERY FEW FAILURES. Over time I would expect to see some failures in a complete OE setup again with the caveat towards the number of miles. 150K? 250? Every chassis has a weak point. Weak is relative. The 5th Gen has a GREAT CHASSIS and IRS.

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

You are spot on correct, with the caveat that there are VERY FEW FAILURES. Over time I would expect to see some failures in a complete OE setup again with the caveat towards the number of miles. 150K? 250? Every chassis has a weak point. Weak is relative. The 5th Gen has a GREAT CHASSIS and IRS.

Then I should be in great shape....I agree with you that GM did a fantastic job with this platform.

And, I'd like to thank you for all you're doing for the community

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

You are spot on correct, with the caveat that there are VERY FEW FAILURES. Over time I would expect to see some failures in a complete OE setup again with the caveat towards the number of miles. 150K? 250? Every chassis has a weak point. Weak is relative. The 5th Gen has a GREAT CHASSIS and IRS.

So, not to throw Tag under the bus.

But his bent endlink Tab must have happened before he put the sways, springs and bushings on?

Seems to me this is not limited to aftermarket sways. just me thinking out loud...

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

So, not to throw Tag under the bus.

But his bent endlink Tab must have happened before he put the sways, springs and bushings on?

Seems to me this is not limited to aftermarket sways. just me thinking out loud...

Yes sir.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

Then I should be in great shape....I agree with you that GM did a fantastic job with this platform.

And, I'd like to thank you for all you're doing for the community

Being part of the 5th Gen Community is obviously good for business, but it is also personal. Camaro5 has introduced me to so many great people who have become good friends. Thank you all for allowing us to be part of it.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Being part of the 5th Gen Community is obviously good for business, but it is also personal. Camaro5 has introduced me to so many great people who have become good friends. Thank you all for allowing us to be part of it.

No, thank YOU for being part of it.

[LightningSS]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

To create a robust endlink tab, we believe welding is essential. A water jet cut piece would be placed in the arm. A bolt would be used to secure the laser cut reinforcement while welding. The water jet cut piece would extend to the bottom of the arm.



The water jet cut reinforcement would also be taller than the OE tab.



A heavy bead weld would add strength to the weakest point of the endlink tab. It is illustrated by a straw in this photo.



Welds in the corners and at the base of the arm would secure the reinforcement. Long tern, there should be no significant changes to load points in the arm. Put another way, we do not believe there will be any durability issues.

We know that some of you will use this concept to immediately reinforce your arms. That is cool and one reason we posted it. This fix will require the arm be removed, welded and reinstalled. We are working with a partner to create an exchange program in addition to the release of the water jet cut part. We should be able to make an announcement on that very quickly.

One more note. Pedders will not be making this part as it is out of our normal range of operation. We think the OEM guys are very sharp. We do our very best to work within the constraints of the OEM design and hardware. Our research on this was done to address a need in the Camaro5 Community. When we pass this over to our partner in crime, we will make nothing. Consider this Pedders repaying the Camaro community for their loyalty to Pedders and the purchases you have made and hopefully will continue to make.

This is definitely the best "rework" solution. I would suggest bending a flange at the top rather then a weld bead though. That will greatly improve the resistance to twisting. Just be sure to check the flange won't hit anything when the wheel is at max "up" position.

Pfadt is trying to make the simplest solution, i.e. no welding. It is pretty good as is, but as PQ says a little welding across the top and on the angled edges would greatly improve it. The more you can share the tension load with the original LCA structure the better.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by LightningSS

This is definitely the best "rework" solution. I would suggest bending a flange at the top rather then a weld bead though. That will greatly improve the resistance to twisting. Just be sure to check the flange won't hit anything when the wheel is at max "up" position.

Pfadt is trying to make the simplest solution, i.e. no welding. It is pretty good as is, but as PQ says a little welding across the top and on the angled edges would greatly improve it. The more you can share the tension load with the original LCA structure the better.

I think Pfadts brakets made wider on top and welded would do the trick.

As it is they just seem like wheel weights on a brake caliper. Hopefully either way the problem will go away. could get quite expensive for anyone who can't change them out themselves.

[LightningSS]

I think Pfadt should also put a bent flange on top of their bracket too instead of matching the chamfered LCA bracket.

Anybody that wished to could add some welds along the chamfered edge to the new bracket and really benefit then.

[LightningSS]

Originally Posted by PQ

No, thank YOU for being part of it.

+1

Working together will always produce the best solutions.

[Hess Motorsports]

I figured I would get these up so that people can see what's now available to correct this issue. These little guys from Pfadt Racing just easily handled the very same complaint from one of our customers.



So here is the totally basic installation. These support plates DO NOT require welding at all. They simply brace under the control arm with locating tabs that also directly locate the plate for the bolt hole for the lower end link mount.



The support plates add the thickness and the proper hole diameter for the end link mounting tab and give it MORE than enough support for the loads placed on the plate.



But just because we can...... we TIG welded the plates in place on the top and sides to give our customer the piece of mind knowing he has a permanent solution to the rear end noise concern he was having.



Props to Pfadt Racing for another great part!!!!!!!!!