MANUAL vs AUTO (I promise it's not a repost)

[Revo1]

Originally Posted by drtwo

Remember that with the manual you get a REAL LS engine, not the "shut off half the cylinders" "let's try to make a ecomomy car out of this" engine...

If that was the intention, they failed. Even with AFM, the L99 SS is anything but an economy car. GM did what they had to do in order to clear the gas guzzler tax. LS3 or L99, Camaro SS is pure muscle, and all badass

[mhood]

Originally Posted by PQ

You do realize that you aren't required to read it, right?

You say that as if I have anything better to do...

[NicksVSix]

Originally Posted by PQ

Ok. Driving a stick over an automatic is about as much more challenging as drinking straight from a glass with no straw, or straight from a glass having to hold the straw out of the way.

Actually I would say, using your analogy, that driving a stick over an automatic is about as much more challenging as having to drink straight from the glass vs having it fed to you intravenously while lying down.
I'm not one of these guys who thinks I'm more of a man because I drive a stick, or you somehow are less of one becuase you don't. I just don't go for the argument that driving a stick has nothing more to it than driving an auto. It's a completely bogus argument.

While driving an auto, you *never* need to look at your tacometer. Tacs are pointless in an auto, they're just decoration. You *never* need to listen to your engine in an auto. Your automatic transmission does all that for you so you don't need to be paying attention to any of that while you mash your accelerator to the floor.
Again, driving a manual is no great accomplishment. Many people can do it. But it's a lot more than just "an extra step" vs auto.

Originally Posted by PQ

I don't get the challenging part. All of you stick drivers know damn well that you don't even realize you're driving a stick. You just do it automatically.

I realize I am driving a stick everytime I shift. Which is a lot. I am reminded of it constantly. I don't think *any* manual driver shifts as automatically or mindlessly as an auto driver has the luxury of doing.
Comon, let's be realistic. Auto drivers don't have to think about *a thing* when it comes to their vehicle shifting gears. So much so they are completely oblivious when their car is doing it. They have no idea.
Manual drivers are very aware when their vehicle is shifting because they are doing it. They either listen to their engine, watch their tac or do little bit of both. Again, it's no great feat, but it adds just enough to the driving experience to make the overall process a bit more complex vs driving an auto.

I am saying this as someone who has driven automatics for the past 12 years and is now driving a manual.

[skuttduck]

Originally Posted by PQ

Originally Posted by skuttduck
I still am not sure what to make of some of the comments. Yes I've lurked and read the threads.

I had automatic for the last 10 years. My Camry is great, however I had more control on the snow and ice with my 1989 Toyota Corolla All Trac wagon because it was manual. You had the perception of more control, so it made you more aware of what's going on. You could have just as much control with an automatic if you pay attention. And BTW, IF it were harder to use an auto tranny on ice as I've seen a few times here, wouldn't it take more skill then to drive on safely ice with an automatic?

My mom's old car 1989 All Trac wagon, was "All Trac" that helped. The manual also helped in that the transmission helps in slowing down the car. In an automatic the car is usually in overdrive, and you coast more when you stop. That was the biggest thing I noticed when I bought the camry. To get a similar feeling to how I slowed down in the manual, I had to turn off overdrive, or put it in the lower gears. Yes you can do that on auto, but for me it comes more natural on manual.

Originally Posted by PQ

Originally Posted by skuttduck
That being said I know to turn off the overdrive if I am driving in slippery conditions. In the manual I just adjust and downshift if needed.

Now if this truely was like PQ seems to say, and you just slide the lever to shift I would have gotten auto, as it would have been just like the 3 wheeler we had. You had to change gears but there was no clutch. Plus i've stalled my car every now and then. Ever tried shifting your car without the clutch. You know you can right?

I did that a couple times in my old Toyota. Never specifically tried it in the Camaro. By the way, I did hear the gears grind Thursday leaving a friends house. I had put the car in neutral popped it out of gear forgot to press the clutch when I put it in first.

If this was truely as advanced and you can just slide the lever, shouldn't I have been able to put it in gear, and not hear it grind?

Originally Posted by PQ

Originally Posted by skuttduck

I bought a Camaro, if I wanted to just press the gas pedal to make it go, I would have bought probably another Camry.

I still don't understand the real appeal of the V8 automatic. Most people will raz you about not having the V8 when you have the V6, but doing the research shows you that you paid more for less of a car. [COLOR="royalblue]Please explain?[/COLOR] Paying more for less of a car. Isn't the whole point of giving someone grief about NO V8 the horsepower. If it is, then you are insecure, and fail.

I thought I did explain it already. The v8 auto costs more than the v8 manual, yet it doesn't have as much horse power, torque, and even has different exhaust.

[ketel0ne]

In my vette i never look at the tach or listen to the motor to shift. When I reach then end of the power range for each gear I shift. Most of the time it is 1,4,5,6.

[NicksVSix]

I was actually talking about the tacometer, which is right next to the burritometer.

Just thought I'd beat the rest of you to it.

[ketel0ne]

Originally Posted by NicksVSix

I was actually talking about the tacometer, which is right next to the burritometer.

Just thought I'd beat the rest of you to it.

I had shift light on a geo metro once, it was right next to the tacometer. When that light went off I got hungry and shifted quicker to get to the border. Hated that little light.

[Rip]

Originally Posted by Revo1

If that was the intention, they failed. Even with AFM, the L99 SS is anything but an economy car. GM did what they had to do in order to clear the gas guzzler tax. LS3 or L99, Camaro SS is pure muscle, and all badass

And they saved you around $1700. I had to pay that crap on the Charger.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by PQ

Sure, they are telling the car when to do it and what gear, but the car is doing it for them.

Dude, I agree with you so much on stuff that it's not even funny, BUT not on this. IMO, remember I said IMO, the stick is SO much fun. I just could not live without it. I don't give a rat's ass who has what. The car is badass in either form, but for me, I must have a stick. I respect both, it's just a personal decision for me. How about this. LONG LIVE the V8!!

[Eleven Charley]

Originally Posted by coolcamaroZ28

Just more fun. When I drive my Dad's 99 Vette (auto), my thought always is 'too bad it's not a stick' Much more control over the vehicle than an auto. I had the chance to drive an automatic 2010 and I found working the tapshift to be a challenge far beyond the clutch in the M6, LOL.

So the A6 was to much of a "challenge"?

[Milk 1027]

OK. I guess it's time for me to finally get into one of these threads.

Warning the following is just my opinion and should be taken as such.

Originally Posted by Revo1

I know this topic has been hashed and re-hashed until it became burger, but after reading through the many posts on the subject, I've noticed a couple things. The M/A arguments can be summed up into three major points.

Argument one: FUN/WORK

M guys: "Manual is the only way to have fun while driving"
A guys: "But I've been able to enjoy driving just fine without a manual transmission, and besides it's too much work"

Yes a manual transmission is fun and no it is not the only way to have fun while driving. But in my opinion the experiance of driving a manual transmission will never be replaced with the same car in an automatic transmission.


Argument two: PERFORMANCE

M guys: "Manual is way faster. It's the only way to launch right"
A guys: "Auto is faster- the computer shifts faster than you ever could, and knows when to do it"

Whoever said a manual transmission car is faster stock for stock is flat out lying or has no idea what they are talking about, it is simply humanly impossible to shift faster than a computer. Besides I don't see many manual transmissions in 4 second dragsters.



Argument three: (and the biggest of the three) BALLS

M guys: "Real men drive stick, pansies drive auto"
A guys: "I don't need to assert my manhood, I can do that by driving what I want"


Ok, this is probably going to piss some people off, but those that say that "real men" drive manual and automatic is for pansies are simply over-compensating for their own short comings. I got over the stupid high school stuff when I was 16. I didn't pick a manual transmission because I wanted to feel more like a "man", or because I thought it would be faster. I picked it simply for the experiance of owning and enjoying a manual transmission.



Now of course there will be other points put to this competition, but those eventually end up getting fed to the "balls" argument, and are moot points here. These three are the main arguments to consider when choosing a transmission.

IMO there's only one point to consider, and that is, What will make you happy? If you can answer that question, you will know what it is you want. And what other people say will not matter

Now it would seem that the A box arguments tend to be more factual and intelligent, and definitely more open to the way of tomorrow (let's face it, A transmissions are the future, and the days of shifting for yourself may very well be numbered) while the M box guys tend to me more locked into an emotional inclination against the A transmission, hanging on for dear life to the days of old.

But then, isn't that what Camaro is all about? This car is not just A-B. This car hails back to the days of it's rough-and-tumble predecessors and in a way, the past lives on through this new age F-body.

The car stirs it's driver emotionally, and that- in the end, is what it all comes down to. What stirs you?

Yes it stirs emotions, but the only emotions that really matter are the ones of the driver and his car.

That is just my opinion and all I will say on the matter. It seems like many people are stuck on ego's and I just don't want to feed into that.

[snowtrill]

Originally Posted by ketel0ne

Try driving a manual 54 miles each way to work, with the last 12 miles in stop and go traffic, that averages 25mph. After the 100th time you push the clutch in, the A6 looks real good. I stopped driving my M6 Vette to work because of those 12 miles.

How about 33 miles each way - stop and go most of it. I did that for almost 5 years in an F250 standard. The only reason my current car does not have a manual is because I could get a 4 cyl manual or V6 auto. I took the V6.

I have also lived in Los Angeles and driven a manual and I would do it again in a heart beat. I don't see the manual as an effort when I drive but I get that some people do.

[Revo1]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

OK. I guess it's time for me to finally get into one of these threads.

Warning the following is just my opinion and should be taken as such.

I know this topic has been hashed and re-hashed until it became burger, but after reading through the many posts on the subject, I've noticed a couple things. The M/A arguments can be summed up into three major points.

Argument one: FUN/WORK

M guys: "Manual is the only way to have fun while driving"
A guys: "But I've been able to enjoy driving just fine without a manual transmission, and besides it's too much work"


Yes a manual transmission is fun and no it is not the only way to have fun while driving. But in my opinion the experiance of driving a manual transmission will never be replaced with the same car in an automatic transmission.

Argument two: PERFORMANCE

M guys: "Manual is way faster. It's the only way to launch right"
A guys: "Auto is faster- the computer shifts faster than you ever could, and knows when to do it"


Whoever said a manual transmission car is faster stock for stock is flat out lying or has no idea what they are talking about, it is simply humanly impossible to shift faster than a computer. Besides I don't see many manual transmissions in 4 second dragsters.

Argument three: (and the biggest of the three) BALLS

M guys: "Real men drive stick, pansies drive auto"
A guys: "I don't need to assert my manhood, I can do that by driving what I want"


Ok, this is probably going to piss some people off, but those that say that "real men" drive manual and automatic is for pansies are simply over-compensating for their own short comings. I got over the stupid high school stuff when I was 16. I didn't pick a manual transmission because I wanted to feel more like a "man", or because I thought it would be faster. I picked it simply for the experience of owning and enjoying a manual transmission.
Now of course there will be other points put to this competition, but those eventually end up getting fed to the "balls" argument, and are moot points here. These three are the main arguments to consider when choosing a transmission.

IMO there's only one point to consider, and that is, What will make you happy? If you can answer that question, you will know what it is you want. And what other people say will not matter



Now it would seem that the A box arguments tend to be more factual and intelligent, and definitely more open to the way of tomorrow (let's face it, A transmissions are the future, and the days of shifting for yourself may very well be numbered) while the M box guys tend to me more locked into an emotional inclination against the A transmission, hanging on for dear life to the days of old.

But then, isn't that what Camaro is all about? This car is not just A-B. This car hails back to the days of it's rough-and-tumble predecessors and in a way, the past lives on through this new age F-body.

The car stirs it's driver emotionally, and that- in the end, is what it all comes down to. What stirs you?




Yes it stirs emotions, but the only emotions that really matter are the ones of the driver and his car.

That is just my opinion and all I will say on the matter. It seems like many people are stuck on ego's and I just don't want to feed into that.

Well said Milk! Alot has been said regarding the differences between A and M, (in this thread and others) but out of all that,^ this^ is what it all comes down to...

Cheers bro

[Rip]

Nothing stirs me, I stir my rum.

No, I ain't 007, I like mine stirred, thank you very much.