Hard starts when warm

[RGRCamaro]

Hey guys!

Do any of you have problems with your car having hard starts after its warm? It never does this when its cold (Been sitting for a bit) But If I drive the car 10-15 minutes, then turn it off and within minutes attempt to start it back up, it will have a very hard start. Cranks okay but just won't start (Almost like a fuel or spark issue maybe?) but I know the pump is fine. Then most of the time when it does finally start up, Stabilitrak goes off, almost like a misfire upon start up(T/C, ABS, and another light all light up on my dash.) Then I also get a CEL, p0108 MAP sensor I believe. I found a couple other threads from a few years of people complaining about hard starts when warm, but no solution. Battery was replaced a few months ago. Plug wires appear to be fine, not sure how to test them.

Does anyone know how heat can cause a hard start? I am assuming it is heat related since it never does it when cold.

Thank you everyone!

[Low Saturn]

My 2011 SS was doing something similar a few months ago. Turned out to be a bad starter.

[KaBoom1701]

Your car is modded....this can be any number of things....best to return to the peeps that tuned your car and have them check it out if it bothers you. Your tune may not be adjusting you spark advanced when the car is warm...

On a stock car I would sat check the battery or the spark plugs and wires.

[RGRCamaro]

Originally Posted by KaBoom1701

Your car is modded....this can be any number of things....best to return to the peeps that tuned your car and have them check it out if it bothers you. Your tune may not be adjusting you spark advanced when the car is warm...

On a stock car I would sat check the battery or the spark plugs and wires.

Iv'e had this issue for a few months, tried to get the tuner to help me, and I did take it back down to him (4 hours away) but it didn't fix it. He also doesn't seem too concerned and I am not high on his priority list apparently as getting responses by email or phone takes days and weeks. He won't be getting my business again.

I think it is fuel or heat related, or both. I am supercharged, so I know I am creating much more heat. I have tested fuel pressure at the rail and it is fine. I have heard of heated fuel causing a vapor block.

By the way, sweet Z, red/black combo is my favorite.

[hazy]

yes yes yes.

I've done a crapload of digging on a bunch of forums (all LS related, but not necessarily 5gen forums...) and the first thing that caught my interest was a post on one of the 4th gen camaro forums where someone mentioned that their starter seemed to be 'heat soaking' and would give big troubles when trying to start.

this got me thinking, and after trying a bunch of different troubleshooting processes, I've got the issue narrowed down to the heat causing some kind of issue with the starter.

My battery checks out great, all wiring is secured (plug wires, grounds, etc...), and the big one for me was the following: after my drive home (45 min, pretty heavy traffic) I would park in the driveway, and try to restart after 5 min of car off.

I did this 2 different ways on different occasions - a) keep hood closed, go back out and try to start - throws code, and dash lights as you mentioned. b) open hood and do the same - no issue at all.

I'm not sure if a new starter will solve the issue, but I feel like it would. Since I don't know a thing about starters, I think my first move is going to be installing Hex Vents. I think this may be the cheapest way to cool things down, but I really have no clue what the cost of a new starter is - Also, I'm modded (416ci) and would like to upgrade from the factory, if that will avoid this issue. Unfortunately, I can't find any good info on what choices are available for an aftermarket upgraded replacement....perhaps I'll call the local shop and see what they have to say

[RGRCamaro]

Originally Posted by hazy

yes yes yes.

I've done a crapload of digging on a bunch of forums (all LS related, but not necessarily 5gen forums...) and the first thing that caught my interest was a post on one of the 4th gen camaro forums where someone mentioned that their starter seemed to be 'heat soaking' and would give big troubles when trying to start.

this got me thinking, and after trying a bunch of different troubleshooting processes, I've got the issue narrowed down to the heat causing some kind of issue with the starter.

My battery checks out great, all wiring is secured (plug wires, grounds, etc...), and the big one for me was the following: after my drive home (45 min, pretty heavy traffic) I would park in the driveway, and try to restart after 5 min of car off.

I did this 2 different ways on different occasions - a) keep hood closed, go back out and try to start - throws code, and dash lights as you mentioned. b) open hood and do the same - no issue at all.

I'm not sure if a new starter will solve the issue, but I feel like it would. Since I don't know a thing about starters, I think my first move is going to be installing Hex Vents. I think this may be the cheapest way to cool things down, but I really have no clue what the cost of a new starter is - Also, I'm modded (416ci) and would like to upgrade from the factory, if that will avoid this issue. Unfortunately, I can't find any good info on what choices are available for an aftermarket upgraded replacement....perhaps I'll call the local shop and see what they have to say

This sounds exactly like me. I have actually started popping my hood too if I think I am going to be leaving soon. Only problem is like last night, went to the grocery store, couldn;t exactly leave my car in the lot with the hood up. I have thought about the starter and heat soaking, just don't know a solution to it!

I'd like to know if more modded guys are having these heat related start issues? I do know a tuner here in Tulsa. I will see what he thinks about it. Also, along with the lights and codes, the car will have a rough idle, back fire alot, and No tach, until I have turned it off... I have also seen threads on other forums that are pointing to heat related for those as well, Stabilitrak being triggered.

[hazy]

Originally Posted by RGRCamaro

This sounds exactly like me. I have actually started popping my hood too if I think I am going to be leaving soon. Only problem is like last night, went to the grocery store, couldn;t exactly leave my car in the lot with the hood up. I have thought about the starter and heat soaking, just don't know a solution to it!

I'd like to know if more modded guys are having these heat related start issues? I do know a tuner here in Tulsa. I will see what he thinks about it. Also, along with the lights and codes, the car will have a rough idle, back fire alot, and No tach, until I have turned it off... I have also seen threads on other forums that are pointing to heat related for those as well, Stabilitrak being triggered.

Regarding the backfiring, idle, etc - All that is (I believe) 'reduced power' mode - basically limp mode to get you a short distance. I don't know if it's bad for the motor, but it sure doesn't sound good (ESPECIALLY with headers, and coming out a Corsa exhaust - those pops are stunningly loud bangs)

I try to not drive it far if it's doing that.

I have been looking this morning at other threads, and it appears that the general sentiment is that unless you're SUPER modded (motor/blower/high comp/etc) the factory starter is beyond sufficient. Since that is cheaper (and presumably easier) to install than Hex Vents, I may order one off of Amazon and put it in. Time is a bit hard to come by for me to do things like this at the moment, but I'm going to start digging and see what it'll require.

Just for posterity's sake, if you decide to replace your starter, I found the below thread with a brief "how-to" and some pdf's with pictures of the assy..

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=394677

Tulsa, eh? I spent a little time up in Bartlesville workin' for the man right out of college. For a little city, Tulsa is quite nice!!

Let's see where this convo goes, and if anyone else provides input. I've been digging around on this off and on for a bit over a year now....

[RGRCamaro]

Originally Posted by hazy

Regarding the backfiring, idle, etc - All that is (I believe) 'reduced power' mode - basically limp mode to get you a short distance. I don't know if it's bad for the motor, but it sure doesn't sound good (ESPECIALLY with headers, and coming out a Corsa exhaust - those pops are stunningly loud bangs)

I try to not drive it far if it's doing that.

I have been looking this morning at other threads, and it appears that the general sentiment is that unless you're SUPER modded (motor/blower/high comp/etc) the factory starter is beyond sufficient. Since that is cheaper (and presumably easier) to install than Hex Vents, I may order one off of Amazon and put it in. Time is a bit hard to come by for me to do things like this at the moment, but I'm going to start digging and see what it'll
require.

Just for posterity's sake, if you decide to replace your starter, I found the below thread with a brief "how-to" and some pdf's with pictures of the assy..

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=394677

Tulsa, eh? I spent a little time up in Bartlesville workin' for the man right out of college. For a little city, Tulsa is quite nice!!

Let's see where this convo goes, and if anyone else provides input. I've been digging around on this off and on for a bit over a year now....

Yup it is the "limp mode" I usually don't have to go far. Sounds like both of us will would fit into that category of new starters, just odd because I haven't heard of any other heavily modded guys needing them too hmm... I might give it a shot at this point. Thank you for the link! If I try it I will let you know.

Yup Higschool and College here in Tulsa. Been to Bartlesville many times! I like Tulsa, just wish we had more LS speed shops.. no one specializes in them here!

[ytown87]

You guys have no idea how happy I am to find out it isnt just me. This has been happening to me for the last few months now. Cold starts...no problem. Run to the store or put gas in the car and it doesnt want to start. I've gotten it down to where I can tell on the first crank if it is going to act up. When it does, I hurry up and turn it off and take the key out...go back right away and turn it on then it cranks up with less issue and no codes firing.

I had my tuner look at this the first time it happened and he increase the amount of spark at start up when it is warm and that worked for a little. I am wondering if a new starter would help then if people seem to think that is the problem.

[hazy]

ok I've decided to go with the starter first, before anything else (appears to be the cheapest route - 100 bucks vs 350 for hex vents, and 200 +/- for a battery)

In that link above, there is a link to a factory starter from Amazon. A bit of reading on other threads leads me to believe that the OEM starter should be more than sufficient, even for pretty heavily modified cars.

I presume swapping them out ought to not be too difficult, but I'm going to look under there this weekend to see. Think I'll order the new starter today, so I can (hopefully?) replace this weekend, if it seems simple enough to do.

Will update if I get the chance to do so!!

[Low Saturn]

Swapping the starter is pretty easy. I was in a lot of discomfort when I did mine, and I still had it done pretty fast.

I took the starter apart afterwards and the insides had discoloration due to heat. The heat shield may protect it a little bit, but it doesn't seem like enough. After I'm all recovered from a recent surgery, I'm going to see if I can fab up some sort of air scoop to bring air up into that area to cool the starter.

[hazy]

Originally Posted by Low Saturn

Swapping the starter is pretty easy. I was in a lot of discomfort when I did mine, and I still had it done pretty fast.

I took the starter apart afterwards and the insides had discoloration due to heat. The heat shield may protect it a little bit, but it doesn't seem like enough. After I'm all recovered from a recent surgery, I'm going to see if I can fab up some sort of air scoop to bring air up into that area to cool the starter.

Sounds good. Just placed the order for the starter from Amazon, so I'm hoping to make the change this weekend.

[RGRCamaro]

Originally Posted by hazy

Sounds good. Just placed the order for the starter from Amazon, so I'm hoping to make the change this weekend.

Awesome! Let us know how it goes! I will probably go ahead and change it out too!

[hazy]

Will do. Probably won't get the chance to "test" it out for a few days after, but I'll post up about the install for sure.